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Justice: What's The Right Thing To Do?, Episode 03: "FREE TO CHOOSE"

Episode 03: "FREE TO CHOOSE"

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When we finished last time,

we were looking at John Stuart Mill's

attempt to reply

to the critics

of Bentham's utilitarianism.

In his book Utilitarianism,

Mill tries to show

that critics to the contrary, it is possible

within the utilitarian framework to distinguish between higher and lower

pleasures. It is possible to make qualitative distinctions of worth

and we tested that idea

with the Simpsons

and the Shakespeare excerpts.

And the results of our experiment

seem to call into question

Mill's distinction

because a great many of you

reported

that you prefer the Simpsons

but that you still consider Shakespeare

to be the higher or the worthier pleasure.

That's the dilemma

with which our experiment confronts

Mill.

What about Mill's attempt to account

for the specially weighty character

of individual rights and justice in chapter five of Utilitarianism?

He wants to say that individual rights

are worthy

of special respect.

In fact, he goes so far as to say that justice is the most sacred part

and the most incomparably binding part of morality.

But the same challenge

could be put

to this part of Mill's defense.

Why is justice

the chief part

and the most binding part of all morality? Well, he says because in the long run

if we do justice and if we respect rights

society as a whole

will be better off in the long run.

Well, what about that?

What if we have a case where making an exception and violating individual rights actually

will make people

better off in the long run? Is it all right then

to use people?

And there's a further

objection

that could be raised against

Mill's case for justice and rights.

Suppose the utilitarian calculus in the long run works out as he says it will

such that respecting people's rights

is a way of making everybody better off

in the long run.

Is that the right reason?

Is that the only reason

to respect people?

If the doctor goes in and yanks the organs from the healthy patient who came in for a checkup

to save five lives

there would be adverse effects in the long run.

Eventually people would learn about this

and would stop going in for checkups.

Is it the right reason?

Is the only reason

that you as the doctor

won't yank the organs out of the healthy patient

that you think

well if I use

him in this way

in the long run

more lives will be lost?

Or is there another reason?

Having to do with intrinsic respect for the person as an individual.

And if that reason matters

then it's not so clear

that even Mill's utilitarianism

can take account of it.

Fully to examine these two

worries or objections

to Mill's defense

we need to push further.

We need to ask

in the case of higher or worthier pleasures

are there theories of the good life

that can provide independent moral standards

for the worth of pleasures?

If so what do they look like?

That's one question.

In the case of justice and rights

if we suspect that Mill is implicitly leaning on notions of human dignity or respect for

a person that are not strictly speaking

utilitarian

we need to look to see whether there are some stronger theories of rights

that can explain

the intuition

which even Mill shares

the intuition

that the reason for respecting individuals and not using them

goes beyond

even utility in the long run.

Today we turn

to one

of those strong theories of rights.

Strong theories of rights say

individuals matter

not just as instruments to be used for a larger social purpose

or for the sake of maximizing utility.

Individuals

are separate beings with separate lives

worthy of respect.

And so it's a mistake

according to strong theories of rights, it's a mistake

to think about justice or law

by just adding up preferences

and values.

The strong rights theory we turn to today

is libertarianism.

Libertarianism

takes individual rights seriously.

It's called libertarianism because it says the fundamental individual right

is the right to liberty.

Precisely because we are separate individual beings

we're not available

to any use

that the society might

desire or devise. Precisely because we are individual

separate human beings

we have a fundamental right to liberty

and that means

a right to choose freely,

to live our lives as we please

provided we respect other people's rights

to do the same.

That's the fundamental idea.

Robert Nozick,

one of the libertarian philosophers we read

for this course, puts it this way.

Individuals have rights

so strong and far-reaching are these rights

that they raise the question of what, if anything,

the state may do.

So what does libertarianism say

about

the role of government

or of the state?

Well there are three things that most

modern states do

that on the libertarian theory of rights

are illegitimate,

are unjust.

One of them

is paternalist legislation.

That's passing laws that protect people from themselves.

Seat belt laws for example,

or motorcycle helmet laws.

The libertarian says

it may be a good thing if people wear seat belts

but that should be up to them

and the state,

the government,

has no business coercing them,

to wear seat belts

by law.

It's coercion.

So no paternalist legislation

number one. Number two,

no morals legislation.

Many laws

try to promote

the virtue of citizens

or try to give expression

to the moral

values

of the society as a whole.

Libertarians say

that's also

a violation of the right to liberty.

Take the example of,

well a classic example of legislation offered in the name of promoting morality,

traditionally

have been laws that prevent

sexual intimacy

between

gays and lesbians.

The libertarian says

nobody else is harmed,

nobody else's rights are violated,

the state should get out of the business entirely

of trying to promote virtue

or to enact morals legislation.

And the third kind of law

or policy

that is ruled out

on the libertarian philosophy

is any taxation

or other policy

that serves the purpose

of redistributing income or wealth

from the rich to the poor.

Redistribution

is a kind, if you think about it,

says the libertarian, is a kind of coercion.

What it amounts to

is theft

by the state

or by the majority,

if we're talking about a democracy,

from people who happen to do very well and earn a lot of money.

Now, Nozick and other libertarians allow that there can be a minimal state

that taxes people for the sake of

what everybody needs,

the national defense,

police force,

judicial system to enforce

contracts and

property rights,

but that's it.

Now,

I want to get your reactions

to this third

feature

of the libertarian view. I want to see

who among you

agree with that idea and who disagree

and why.

But just to make it concrete and to see what's at stake,

consider the distribution of wealth

in the United States.

The United States is among the most

inegalitarian societies as far as the distribution of wealth

of all the advanced democracies.

Now, is this just

or unjust?

Well, what does the libertarian say?

The libertarian says

you can't know just from the facts

I've just given you.

You can't know whether that distribution

is just or unjust.

You can't know just by looking at a pattern or a distribution or a result

whether it's just or unjust.

You have to know how it came to be.

You can't just look at the end state or the result.

You have to look at two principles.

The first he calls justice in acquisition

or in initial holdings.

And what that means simply is

did people get the things they use to make their money fairly?

So we need to know

was there justice in the initial holdings? Did they steal the land or the factory or the goods

that enabled them to make all that money?

If not,

if they were entitled to whatever it was that enabled them to

gather the wealth,

the first principle is met.

The second principle is

did the distribution arise

from the operation of free consent?

People buying and trading on the market.

As you can see the libertarian idea of justice

corresponds to a free market

conception of justice.

Provided people

got what they used

fairly,

didn't steal it,

and provided

the distribution results from the free choice of individuals buying and selling things,

the distribution is just.

And if not,

it's unjust.

So let's in order to fix ideas for this discussion

take

an actual

example.

Who's the wealthiest person

in the United States? Wealthiest person in the world?

Bill Gates.

It is.

That's right.

Here he is.

You'd be happy too.

Now, what's his net worth?

Anybody have any idea?

That's a big number.

During the Clinton years, remember there was a controversy, donors, big campaign contributors

were invited to stay overnight in the Lincoln bedroom at the White House?

I think if you contributed $25,000 or above,

someone figured out

at the median contribution

that got you invited to stay a night in the Lincoln bedroom,

Bill Gates could afford to stay in the Lincoln bedroom every night for the next 66,000 years.

Somebody else figured out

how much does he get paid on an hourly basis?

And

so they figured out since he began Microsoft

suppose he worked

what, 14 hours

per day?

Reasonable guess.

And you calculate

this net wealth.

It turns out

that his rate of

pay

over

$150, not

per hour,

not per minute,

$150, more than $150 per second,

which means

that if on his way to the office

Gates noticed a hundred dollar bill on the street,

it wouldn't be worth his time to stop and pick it up.

Now, most of you will say

someone that wealthy

surely we can tax them

to meet

the pressing needs

of people

who lack an education

or lack enough to eat

or lack decent housing.

They need it more than he does.

And if you were a utilitarian

what would you do?

What tax policy would you have?

You'd redistribute in a flash, wouldn't you?

Because you would know

being a good utilitarian

that taking some

a small amount

he's scarcely going to notice it

but it will make a huge improvement in the lives

and in the welfare of those at the bottom.

But remember

the libertarian theory says

we can't just add up

and aggregate

preferences and satisfactions

that way

we have to respect

persons

and if he earned that money fairly

without violating anybody else's rights

in accordance with the two principles of justice in acquisition and justice in transfer,

then

it would be wrong

it would be a form of coercion

to take it away.

Michael Jordan is not as wealthy as Bill Gates

but he did pretty well for himself.

You want to see Michael Jordan?

There he is.

His income alone

in one year was thirty one million dollars

and then he made another forty seven million dollars in endorsements for Nike and other

companies.

So his income

was

in one year seventy eight million

to require him to pay

let's say a third of his earnings

to the government

to support good causes

like food and health care and housing and education for the poor

that's coercion

that's unjust

that violates his

rights

and that's why

redistribution is wrong.

Now, how many agree with that argument?

agree with the libertarian argument

that redistribution for the sake of

trying to help the poor is wrong?

and how many disagree with that argument?

All right, let's begin with those who disagree.

What's wrong with the libertarian case against

redistribution?

Yes.

I think these people like Michael Jordan have received

we're talking about working within a society

and they received a larger

gift from the society

and they have a larger obligation in return

to give that through redistribution.

You know, you can say that Michael Jordan may work just as hard as someone who works

you know

doing laundry twelve hours fourteen hours a day

but he's receiving more

I don't think it's fair to say that you know

it's all on his you know inherent

you know hard work.

Let's hear from defenders of libertarianism.

Why would it be wrong in principle

to tax the rich to help the poor?

My name's Joe and I collect skateboards.

I've since bought a hundred skateboards. I live in a society of a hundred people.

I'm the only one with skateboards. Suddenly everyone decides they want a skateboard.

They come into my house, they take my

they take ninety nine of my skateboards.

I think that is unjust.

Now I think in certain circumstances

it becomes necessary to overlook that injustice, perhaps condone that

injustice

as in the case of the cabin boy being killed

for food. If people are on the verge of dying, perhaps

it is necessary

to overlook that injustice but I think it's important to keep in mind

that we're still committing injustice

by taking people's belongings or assets. Are you saying that taxing Michael Jordan, say at a

thirty three percent tax rate

for good causes

to feed the hungry

is theft?

I think it's unjust. Yes I do believe it's theft but perhaps it is necessary

to condone that theft.

But it's theft.

Yes.

Why is it theft, Joe?

Because... Why is it like your collection of skateboards?

It's theft because

at least in my opinion and by the libertarian opinion

he earned that money fairly

and

it belongs to him so to take it from him is by definition theft.

Alright let's see if there's a...

Who wants to reply to Joe?

Yes, go ahead.

I don't think this is necessarily a case in which you have ninety nine skateboards

and

the government... or you have a hundred skateboards and the government's taking ninety nine of them.

It's like you have more skateboards than there are

days in a year. You have more skateboards than you're going to be able to use in your entire

lifetime

and the government is taking

part of those.

And I think that if you're operating in a society

in which the government's...

in which the government doesn't redistribute wealth

that that allows for people to amass so much wealth

that people who haven't started from

this very... the equal footing in our hypothetical situation

that doesn't exist in our real society

get undercut for the rest of their lives.

So you're worried that if there isn't some degree of redistribution, if some are left

at the bottom

there will be no genuine equality of opportunity.

The idea that taxation is theft

Nozick takes that point one step further.

He agrees that it's theft.

He's more demanding than Joe. Joe says it is theft

maybe in an extreme case it's justified

maybe

a parent

is justified in stealing a loaf of bread

to feed his or her hungry family.

So Joe is a... what would you call yourself? A compassionate quasi-libertarian?

Nozick says

if you think about it

taxation

amounts to the taking of earnings.

In other words it means

taking

the fruits

of my labor.

But if the state has the right

to take my earnings or the fruits of my labor

isn't that morally the same

as according to the state

the right

to claim

a portion of my labor?

So taxation actually

is morally equivalent

to forced labor

because forced labor

involves the taking

of my leisure, my time, my efforts

just as taxation

takes the earnings

that I make

with my labor.

And so for Nozick

and for the libertarians

taxation for redistribution

is theft as Joe says

but not only theft

it's morally equivalent

to laying claim

to certain hours

of a person's life

and labor.

So it's morally equivalent to forced labor.

If the state has a right to claim the fruits of my labor

that implies that it really

has an entitlement

to my labor itself.

And what is forced labor?

Forced labor

Nozick points out

is what?

Is slavery.

Because if I don't have the right, the sole right

to my own labor,

then

that's really to say that the government or the

political community

is a part owner in me.

And what does it mean for the state to be a part owner in me?

If you think about it,

it means

that I'm a slave,

that I don't own myself.

So what this line of reasoning brings us to

is the fundamental

principle

that underlies the libertarian case for rights.

What is that principle?

It's the idea

that I own myself.

It's the idea

of self-possession.

If you want to take rights seriously,

if you don't want to just regard people as collections of preferences,

the fundamental moral idea

to which you will be led

is the idea

that we are the owners or the proprietors of our own person.

And that's why

utilitarianism goes wrong.

And that's why it's wrong to yank the organs from that healthy patient.

You're acting as if

that patient belongs to you or to the community,

but we belong to ourselves.

And that's the same reason

that it's wrong to make laws to protect us from ourselves

or to tell us how to live,

to tell us what virtues

we should be governed by.

And that's also why it's wrong

to tax

the rich, to help the poor,

even for good causes,

even to help those who are displaced by the hurricane Katrina.

Ask them to give charity,

but if you tax them,

it's like forcing them to labor.

Could you

tell Michael Jordan he has to skip the next

week's games and go down to help

the people

displaced by hurricane Katrina?

Morally it's the same.

So the stakes are very high.

So far we've heard some objections

to the libertarian argument,

but if you want to reject it,

you have to break into this chain of reasoning which goes,

taking my earnings

is like

taking my labor,

but taking my labor

is making me a slave.

And if you disagree with that,

you must believe in the principle of self-possession.

Those who

disagree,

gather your objections

and we'll begin with them next time.

Anyone like to take up that point?

I feel like when you live in a society you give up that right. I mean technically if I

want to personally go out and kill someone because they offend me, that is self-possession.

Because I live in a society I cannot do that.

Victoria, are you questioning

the fundamental premise of self-possession?

Yes.

I think that you don't really have self-possession if you choose to live in a society because

you cannot just discount

the people around you.

We were talking last time about libertarianism.

I want to go back to the arguments for and against the redistribution of income,

but before we do that,

just one word about

the minimal state.

Martin Friedman,

the libertarian economist,

he points out

that many of the functions

that we take for granted

as properly belonging to government, don't.

They are paternalist. One example he gives is social security.

He says it's a good idea

for people to save for their retirement

during their earning years,

but it's wrong.

It's a violation of people's liberty

for the government to force

everyone,

whether they want to or not,

to put aside some

earnings today

for the sake of their retirement. If people want to take the chance,

or people want to live big today and live

a poor

retirement,

that should be their choice.

They should be free

to make those judgments and take those risks.

So even social security

would still be at odds with the minimal state

that Milton Friedman

argued for.

It's sometimes thought that

collective goods like police protection

and fire protection

will inevitably create the problem of free riders unless they're publicly provided.

But there are ways

prevent free riders. There are ways to

restrict even seemingly collective goods like fire protection.

I read an article

a while back about a private fire company, the Salem Fire Corporation in Arkansas.

You can sign up with the Salem Fire Corporation,

pay a yearly subscription fee,

and if your house catches on fire,

they will come and put out the fire.

But they won't put out

everybody's fire.

They will only put it out

if it's a fire

in the home of a

subscriber or if it starts to spread

and to threaten

the home of a subscriber.

The newspaper article

told the story of a homeowner who had subscribed

to this company in the past

but failed to renew his subscription. His house caught on fire.

The Salem Fire Corporation showed up with its trucks

and watched the house burn,

just making sure that it didn't spread.

The fire chief was asked,

well he wasn't exactly the fire chief, I guess he was the CEO.

He was asked,

how can you stand by with fire equipment

and allow a person's home to burn?

He replied,

once we verified there was no danger to a member's property,

we had no choice

but to back off

according to our rules. If we responded to all fires, he said, there would be no incentive to subscribe.

The homeowner, in this case,

tried to renew his subscription at the scene of the fire,

but the head of the company refused.

You can't wreck your car, he said, and then buy insurance for it later.

So, even public goods

that we take for granted as being within the proper province of government,

can, many of them, in principle,

isolated, made exclusive to those who pay.

That's all to do with

the question of collective goods

and the libertarians' injunction against

paternalism.

But let's go back now to the

arguments about redistribution.

Now,

underlying

the libertarians' case

for the minimal state

is a worry about coercion. But what's wrong with coercion?

The libertarian offers this answer.

To coerce someone,

to use some person for the sake of the general welfare

is wrong

because it calls into question the fundamental fact

that we own ourselves.

The fundamental moral fact

of self-possession or self-ownership.

The libertarians' argument against redistribution

begins with this fundamental idea that we own ourselves.

Nozick says

that if

the society as a whole

can go to Bill Gates

or go to Michael Jordan

and tax away a portion

of their wealth,

what the society is really asserting

is a collective property right

in Bill Gates

or in Michael Jordan.

But that violates

the fundamental principle

that we belong to ourselves.

Now, we've already heard a number of objections

to the libertarian argument.

What I would like to do today

is to give

the libertarians among us

a chance to answer the objections

that have been raised.

And some have been, some

have already identified themselves and have agreed to

come and make the case

for libertarianism to reply to the objections that have been raised.

So raise your hand if you are among the libertarians

who's prepared to stand up

for the theory and respond to the objections.

You are

Alex Harris who's been a

star on the web blog.

All right, Alex, come here, stand up, come.

We'll create a libertarian corner over here.

Who else? Other libertarians

who will join?

What's your name?

John Sheffield.

Who else wants to join?

Other brave libertarians who are prepared

to take on, yes,

what's your name?

Julia Roto, Julia, come.

Join us over there.

Now while the,

while Team Libertarian,

Julia, John, Alex,

while Team Libertarian is gathering over there,

let me just summarize

the main objections that I've heard

in class and on the website.

Objection number one,

and here, I'll come down to, I want to talk to Team Libertarian over here.

So objection number one

is that

the poor need the money more.

That's an obvious objection.

A lot more

than

Bill Gates and Michael Jordan.

Objection number two,

it's not really slavery to tax

because

at least in a democratic society

it's not a slave holder.

It's Congress.

It's a democratic, you're smiling Alex already, you're confident you can reply to all of these?

So taxation by consent of the governed is not coerced.

Third, some people have said don't the successful

like Gates

owe a debt to society for their success that they repay by paying taxes.

Who wants to respond to the first one? The poor need the money more.

John.

John, what's the answer?

The poor need the money more.

That's quite obvious.

I could use the money. I certainly wouldn't mind if Bill Gates gave me a million dollars.

I'd take a thousand.

But at some point

you have to understand that the benefits of redistribution of wealth don't justify the

financial violation of the property right.

If you look at the argument the poor need the money more, at no point in that argument

do you contradict the fact that we've extrapolated from agreed upon principles that people own

themselves.

We've extrapolated that people have property rights.

And so whether or not it would be a good thing or a nice thing or even a necessary thing

for the survival of some people,

we don't see that that justifies the violation of the right that we've logically extrapolated.

And so that also, I mean

there still exists this institution of

like individual philanthropy. Milton Friedman makes this argument.

So Bill Gates can give to charity if he wants to.

But it would still be wrong to coerce him

to meet the needs of the poor.

Are the two of you happy with that reply?

Anything to add?

Go ahead, Julie.

I think, Julia, yes. I think I could also add,

I guess I could add that

there's a difference between needing something and deserving something. I mean in an ideal society

everyone's needs be met,

but here we're arguing what do we deserve as a society.

And the poor don't deserve

don't deserve

the benefits that would flow from taxing Michael Jordan to help them.

Based on what we've come up with here I don't think

you deserve something like that.

Let me push you a little bit on that, Julia.

The victims of Hurricane Katrina

are in desperate need of help.

Would you say that they don't deserve

help that would come

from

the federal government through taxation?

Okay, that's a difficult question.

I think

this is a case where they need help, not

deserve it.

I think again if you hit a certain level of

requirements to reach sustenance, you're going to need help. Like if you don't have

food or a place to live, that's a case of need.

## So need is one thing and dessert is another.

Who would like to reply?

Going back to the first point

that he made about the property rights of the individual,

the property rights are established and enforced by the government, which is

a democratic government and we have representatives

who enforce those rights.

If you live in a society that operates under those rules,

then it should be up to the government

to decide

how

those resources that come out through taxation are distributed because

it is through the consent of the government. If you disagree with it,

you don't have to live in that society where that operates.

All right, good. And tell me your name.

Raul is pointing out, actually Raul is invoking

point number two.

If the taxation is by

the consent of the governed,

it's not coerced,

it's legitimate.

Bill Gates and Michael Jordan are citizens of the United States. They get to vote for

Congress. They get to

vote

their policy convictions

just like everybody else.

Who would like to take that one on? John?

Basically what the libertarians are

objecting to in this case is the middle 80% deciding what the top 10%

are doing for the bottom 10%. Wait, wait, wait, wait, John.

Majority. Don't you believe in democracy?

Well, right, but at some point... Don't you believe in, I mean you say 80%, 10% majority.

Majority rule is what?

The majority.

Exactly, but... In a democracy. Aren't you for democracy? Yes, I'm for democracy, but...

Hang on, hang on, hang on.

Democracy and mob rule aren't the same thing. Mob rule? Mob rule.

Exactly. But in an open society you have a recourse to address that through your

representatives.

And if the majority of the consent of those who are governed

doesn't agree with you,

then you know

you're choosing to live in a society

and you have to operate under what

the majority of society concludes. Alright, Alex on democracy.

Democracy, what about that?

The fact that

I have won, you know, 500 thousandth of a vote for one representative in Congress

is not the same thing as my

having the ability to decide for myself

how to use my property rights. I'm

a drop in the bucket.

And, you know, well... You might lose the vote.

Exactly. And they might take... And I will. I mean I don't have

the decision right now of whether or not to pay taxes. If I don't I get locked in jail.

Or they tell me to get out of the country. But Alex, Alex,

let me make a small case for democracy.

See what you would say.

Why can't you... We live in a democratic society with freedom of speech.

Why can't you take to the hustings,

persuade your fellow citizens

that taxation is unjust

and try to get a majority?

I don't think the people should be... should have to convince 280 million others

simply in order to exercise

their own rights in order to not have their self-ownership violated.

I think people should be able to do that without having to convince

280 million people. Does that mean you're against democracy as a whole? No, I just believe

in a very limited form of democracy whereby we have a constitution that severely limits

the scope of what decisions

can be made democratically.

All right. So you're saying that democracy is fine

except where fundamental rights are involved.

I think you could win... If you're going on the hustings, let me add one element to the

argument you might make.

Maybe you could say, put aside the economic debates,

taxation.

Suppose the individual right to religious liberty were at stake.

Then, Alex, you could say on the hustings,

surely you would all agree

that we shouldn't put the right to individual liberty up to a vote?

Yeah, that's exactly right.

And that's why we have constitutional amendments and why we make it so hard to amend our constitution.

So you would say

that the right to private property,

the right of Michael Jordan to keep all the money he makes, at least

to protect it from redistribution,

is the same kind of right

with the same kind of weight

as the right to freedom of speech,

the right to religious liberty, rights that should trump

what the majority wants?

Exactly. The reason why we have a right to free speech is because we have a right

to own ourselves, to exercise our voice

in any way that we choose.

So there we... Alright, who would like to respond to that argument about

democracy being... Okay, up there. Stand up.

I think comparing religion and economics, it's not the same thing.

The reason why Bill Gates was able to make so much money is because we live in an economically

and socially stable

society, and if the government didn't provide for the poorest ten percent, as you say,

through taxation, then

we would need more money for police to prevent crime.

And so either way, there would be more taxes taken away to provide what you guys call

the necessary things

that the government provides.

What's your name?

Anna. Anna, let me ask you this.

Why

is the fundamental right to religious liberty

from

the right Alex asserts

as a fundamental right

to private property

and to keep what I earn?

What's the difference between the two?

Because you wouldn't

have...

You wouldn't be able to make money. You wouldn't be able to own property if

there wasn't a socially... Like, if society wasn't stable.

And that's completely different from religion. That's like something personal,

something that you can practice on your own in your own home.

Whereas, like, me practicing my religion is not going to affect the next person.

But if I'm poor and I'm desperate,

like, I might commit a crime to feed my family,

and that can affect others. Okay, good. Thank you.

Would it be wrong for someone

to steal a loaf of bread

to feed

his starving family?

Is that wrong?

I believe that it is. This is... Let's take a quick poll of the three of you.

You say yes, it is wrong.

It violates property rights. It's wrong.

Even to save a starving family?

I mean, there are definitely other ways around that, and

by justifying...

No, hang on, hang on. Before you laugh at me.

That didn't work.

Before...

Before justifying the act

of stealing,

you have to look at

violating the right that we've already agreed exists, the right of self-possession

and the possession of,

I mean, your own things. We agree on property rights. We agree on stealing.

So property rights is not the issue.

So why is it wrong to steal even to feed your starving family? Sort of the original

argument that I made in the very first question you asked. The benefits

of an action don't justify, don't

make the action just.

What would you say, Julia?

Is it all right to

steal a loaf of bread to feed a starving family, or to steal a drug that

your child needs to

survive?

I think I'm okay with that, honestly. Even from a libertarian standpoint, I think that

okay saying that you can just take money arbitrarily from people who have a lot

to go to this pool of people who need it,

but you have an individual who's acting on their own behalf

to kind of save themselves. I mean, I think you said they,

from the idea of self-possession,

they're also in charge of

protecting themselves and keeping themselves alive.

So therefore, even from a libertarian standpoint, that might be okay.

Alright, that's good. That's good.

What about number three up here?

Isn't it the case

that the successful, the wealthy

owe a debt? They didn't do that all by themselves. They had to cooperate with other people.

That they

owe a debt to society, and that that's expressed in taxation. You want to take that on, Julia?

Okay, this one, I believe that

there is not a debt to society in the sense that how did these people become wealthy? They did something

that society valued highly.

I think that society has already

been providing for them.

If anything, I think everything's canceled out. They provided a service to society

and society

responded by, somehow they got their wealth.

So be concrete. In the case of Michael Jordan,

some,

I mean to illustrate your point,

there were people who helped you make the money, the teammates,

the coach,

people who taught him how to play.

But you're saying that they've all been paid for their services.

Exactly.

And society derived a lot of benefit and pleasure from watching Michael Jordan play.

I think that that's how he paid his debt to society.

Alright, good. Who would anyone like to take up that point?

I think that there's a problem here

that we're assuming that a person has self-possession when they live in a society.

I feel like when you live in a society you give up that right. I mean technically if I

want to personally go out and kill someone because they offend me, that is self-possession.

Because I live in a society I cannot do that.

I think it's kind of equivalent to say because I have more money, I have resources that can

save people's lives.

Is it not okay for the government to take that from me?

It's self-possession only to a certain extent because I'm living in a society where I have

to take account of the people around me.

So are you questioning, what's your name?

Victoria, are you questioning

the fundamental premise of self-possession?

I think that you don't really have self-possession if you choose to live in a society because

you cannot just discount the people around you.

Alright, I want to quickly get the response

the libertarian team

to the last point.

The last point

builds on

well maybe it builds on Victoria's suggestion that we don't own ourselves

because it says

that Bill Gates is wealthy,

that Michael Jordan makes a huge income.

Isn't wholly

their own doing?

It's the product of a lot of luck

and so we can't claim that they

morally deserve

all the money they make.

Who wants to reply to that?

You certainly could make the case that

it is not, their wealth is not appropriate to the goodness in their hearts,

but that's not really the morally relevant issue. The point is that

they have received what they have through the free exchange of people who have given them

their holdings, usually in exchange for providing some other service.

Good enough.

I want to try to sum up what we've learned from this discussion but first let's thank

John, Alex, and Julia for an excellent, really wonderful job.

Thank you.

Toward the end of the discussion just now

Victoria challenged

the premise of this line of reasoning, this libertarian logic.

Maybe, she suggested, we don't own ourselves

after all.

If you reject

the libertarian case against redistribution

there would seem to be

an incentive

to break into the libertarian line of reasoning

at the earliest, at the most modest level,

which is why a lot of people

disputed

that taxation

is morally equivalent to forced labor.

But what about

the big claim,

the premise, the big idea underlying the libertarian argument?

Is it true that we own ourselves?

can we do without that idea

and still avoid

what libertarians want to avoid,

creating a society and an account of justice

where some people

can be

just used

for the sake

of other people's welfare

or even for the sake

of the general good?

Libertarians combat

the utilitarian idea

of using people

as means

for the collective happiness

by saying the way to put a stop to that utilitarian logic of using persons

is to resort to the intuitively powerful idea

that we are the proprietors of our own person.

That's Alex and Julia and John

and Robert Nozick.

What are the consequences

for a theory of justice

and an account of rights

of calling into question

the idea of self-possession?

Does it mean that we're back to utilitarianism

and using people

and aggregating preferences

and pushing the fat man off the bridge?

Nozick doesn't

himself

fully develop the idea of self-possession. He borrows it from an earlier philosopher, John Locke.

John Locke

accounted

for the rise of private property

from the state of nature

by a chain of reasoning very similar to the one that Nozick and the libertarians use.

John Locke said

private property arises

because

when we mix our labor

with things,

unowned things,

we come to acquire a property right in those things.

And the reason,

the reason is that we own our own labor.

And the reason for that,

we are the proprietors, the owners

of our own person.

And so in order to examine

the moral force of the libertarian claim that we own ourselves,

we need to turn

to the English political philosopher John Locke

and examine his account

of private property

and self-ownership.

And that's what we'll do next time.

Thank you.

Funding for this program is provided by

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When we finished last time, cuando|nosotros|terminamos|última|vez Cuando terminamos la última vez,

attempt to reply intento|a|responder de responder

to the critics ||critics a|los|críticos a los críticos

of Bentham's utilitarianism. de|Bentham|utilitarismo del utilitarismo de Bentham.

In his book Utilitarianism, en|su|libro|utilitarismo En su libro Utilitarismo,

Mill tries to show Mill|trata|de|mostrar Mill intenta mostrar

that critics to the contrary, it is possible esos|críticos|a|los|contrario|eso|es|posible que, a pesar de las críticas, es posible

within the utilitarian framework to distinguish between higher and lower ||utilitarian|||distinguish|||| dentro de|el|utilitarista|marco|para|distinguir|entre|mayor|y|menor dentro del marco utilitarista distinguir entre lo superior y lo inferior

pleasures. It is possible to make qualitative distinctions of worth ||||||qualitatives||| ||||||qualitative|distinctions|| placeres|(pronombre sujeto)|es|posible|(preposición)|hacer|cualitativas|distinciones|de|valor piaceri. È possibile fare delle distinzioni qualitative di valore 乐趣。可以对价值进行定性区分 placeres. Es posible hacer distinciones cualitativas de valor

and we tested that idea y|nosotros|probamos|esa|idea y probamos esa idea

with the Simpsons con|los|Simpsons con los Simpsons

and the Shakespeare excerpts. y|los|Shakespeare|extractos e i brani di Shakespeare. y los extractos de Shakespeare.

And the results of our experiment |||||expérience y|los|resultados|de|nuestro|experimento Y los resultados de nuestro experimento

seem to call into question ||||remettre en question 듯하다|||| parece|a|llamar|en|duda 문제의 소지를 보이는 듯하다 parecen poner en duda

Mill's distinction |distinction |구별 |distinción 밀의 구별 la distinción de Mill

reported reportado reportado

that you prefer the Simpsons que|tú|prefieres|los|Simpsons que prefieres los Simpsons

to be the higher or the worthier pleasure. ser|el|mayor|o|el|más|digna|placer como el placer más alto o más digno.

That's the dilemma ||dilemma esa es|el|dilema Ese es el dilema

with which our experiment confronts con|la cual|nuestro|experimento|confronta con el que nuestro experimento se enfrenta

Mill. molino Mill.

for the specially weighty character |||lourd| para|el|especialmente|pesado|personaje per il carattere particolarmente pesante por el carácter especialmente importante

of individual rights and justice in chapter five of Utilitarianism? |||||||||l'utilitarisme de|individuales|derechos|y|justicia|en|capítulo|cinco|de|utilitarismo de los derechos individuales y la justicia en el capítulo cinco de Utilitarismo?

are worthy |digne son|dignos sono degni son dignos

of special respect. de|especial|respeto de respeto especial.

In fact, he goes so far as to say that justice is the most sacred part de hecho|hecho|él|llega|tan|lejos|hasta|a|decir|que|justicia|es|la|más|sagrada|parte De hecho, llega tan lejos como para decir que la justicia es la parte más sagrada

and the most incomparably binding part of morality. |||incomparablement|||| y|la|más|incomparablemente|vinculante|parte|de|moralidad e la parte più incomparabilmente vincolante della morale. y la parte más incomparablemente vinculante de la moralidad.

But the same challenge pero|el|mismo|desafío Ma la stessa sfida Pero el mismo desafío

could be put podría|ser|poner podría ser puesto

Why is justice por qué|es|justicia ¿Por qué es la justicia

the chief part el|principal|parte la parte principal

society as a whole sociedad|como|un|todo la società nel suo complesso la sociedad en su conjunto

Well, what about that? bueno|qué|acerca de|eso Bueno, ¿y qué hay de eso?

will make people (verbo auxiliar futuro)|hacer|personas hará que las personas

to use people? para|usar|personas ¿usar a las personas?

And there's a further |||une autre y|hay|una|más E c'è un ulteriore Y hay una objeción adicional

objection objeción que podría ser planteada

that could be raised against eso|podría|ser|levantado|contra en contra de

such that respecting people's rights ||le respect des|| tal|que|respetando|de las personas|derechos De tal manera que respetar los derechos de las personas

in the long run. en|el|largo|plazo a largo plazo.

Is that the right reason? es|esa|la|correcta|razón ¿Es esa la razón correcta?

Is that the only reason es|esa|la|única|razón ¿Es esa la única razón

to respect people? a|respetar|personas para respetar a las personas?

If the doctor goes in and yanks the organs from the healthy patient who came in for a checkup ||||||arrache|||||||||||| si|el|doctor|entra|adentro|y|arranca|los|órganos|de|el|sano|paciente|que|vino|adentro|para|un|chequeo Se il medico va a prelevare gli organi da un paziente sano che è venuto a fare un controllo, il medico non può fare nulla. Si el doctor entra y arranca los órganos del paciente sano que vino para un chequeo

to save five lives para|salvar|cinco|vidas para salvar cinco vidas

Is it the right reason? es|eso|la|correcta|razón ¿Es la razón correcta?

Is the only reason es|la|única|razón ¿Es la única razón

that you as the doctor que|tú|como|el|doctor que tú como doctor

won't yank the organs out of the healthy patient ||||||||patient no|sacar|los|órganos|fuera|de|el|sano|paciente non strapperà gli organi da un paziente sano. no le arrancará los órganos al paciente sano

that you think que|tú|piensas que tú piensas

well if I use bueno|si|yo|uso bueno, si lo uso

him in this way él|de|esta|manera de esta manera

in the long run en|el|largo|plazo a largo plazo

more lives will be lost? más|vidas|se|perderán|perdidas ¿se perderán más vidas?

Or is there another reason? o|hay|allí|otra|razón ¿O hay otra razón?

Having to do with intrinsic respect for the person as an individual. tener|que|hacer|con|intrínseco|respeto|por|la|persona|como|un|individuo Que tiene que ver con el respeto intrínseco por la persona como individuo.

And if that reason matters ||||compte y|si|esa|razón|importa Y si esa razón importa

then it's not so clear entonces|no es|tan|tan|claro entonces no está tan claro

that even Mill's utilitarianism |||utilitarisme eso|incluso|de Mill|utilitarismo que incluso el utilitarismo de Mill

can take account of it. puede|tomar|en cuenta|de|ello può tenerne conto. pueda tenerlo en cuenta.

Fully to examine these two ||examiner|| completamente|para|examinar|estos|dos Examinar completamente estos dos

worries or objections preocupaciones|o|objeciones preocupaciones u objeciones

to Mill's defense a|Mill|defensa a la defensa de Mill

we need to push further. ||||plus loin nosotros|necesitamos|que|empujar|más lejos dobbiamo spingere di più. necesitamos profundizar más.

We need to ask nosotros|necesitamos|que|preguntar Necesitamos preguntar

in the case of higher or worthier pleasures ||||||plus dignes| en|el|caso|de|mayores|o|más dignas|placeres nel caso di piaceri più elevati o degni di nota 在更高或更有价值的快乐的情况下 en el caso de placeres más altos o más dignos

are there theories of the good life hay|teorías|||de|la|vida 有没有关于美好生活的理论 ¿existen teorías de la buena vida

that can provide independent moral standards |||||normes que|puede|proporcionar|independientes|morales|normas 能够提供独立的道德标准 que puedan proporcionar estándares morales independientes?

for the worth of pleasures? ||valeur|| por|el|valor|de|placeres 为了快乐的价值？ ¿por el valor de los placeres?

That's one question. esa es|una|pregunta Esa es una pregunta.

In the case of justice and rights en|el|caso|de|justicia|y|derechos En el caso de la justicia y los derechos

if we suspect that Mill is implicitly leaning on notions of human dignity or respect for |||||||s'appuie||notions|||||| si|nosotros|sospechamos|que|Mill|está|implícitamente|apoyándose|en|nociones|de|dignidad humana|dignidad|o|respeto|por se sospettiamo che Mill si appoggia implicitamente a nozioni di dignità umana o di rispetto per si sospechamos que Mill se apoya implícitamente en nociones de dignidad humana o respeto por

a person that are not strictly speaking una|persona|que|son|no|estrictamente|hablando una persona que no son estrictamente hablando

utilitarian utilitario utilitarias

we need to look to see whether there are some stronger theories of rights nosotros|necesitamos|que|mirar|a|ver|si|hay|hay|algunas|más fuertes|teorías|de|derechos necesitamos ver si hay algunas teorías de derechos más sólidas.

that can explain eso|puede|explicar que puede explicar

the intuition la|intuición la intuición

which even Mill shares cuál|incluso|Mill|comparte che anche Mill condivide que incluso Mill comparte

the intuition la|intuición la intuición

goes beyond |va au-delà va|más allá va más allá

Today we turn ||faisons hoy|nosotros|giramos Hoy nos dirigimos

to one a|uno a uno

Strong theories of rights say fuertes|teorías|de|derechos|dicen Las teorías fuertes de derechos dicen

individuals matter individuos|importan le persone contano que los individuos importan

not just as instruments to be used for a larger social purpose ||||||||||social|objectif no|solo|como|instrumentos|para|ser|utilizados|para|un|mayor|social|propósito no solo como instrumentos que se utilizan para un propósito social más grande

or for the sake of maximizing utility. |||bien||| o|por|el|bien|de|maximizar|utilidad o per massimizzare l'utilità. o por el bien de maximizar la utilidad.

Individuals individus individuos Los individuos

are separate beings with separate lives sont||êtres||| son|seres|seres|con|vidas|vidas son seres separados con vidas separadas

worthy of respect. digne|| digno|de|respeto digno de respeto.

And so it's a mistake y|así|es|un|error Y así es un error

according to strong theories of rights, it's a mistake según|a|fuertes|teorías|de|derechos|es|un|error según fuertes teorías de derechos, es un error

by just adding up preferences por|solo|sumar|arriba|preferencias simplemente sumando preferencias

and values. y|valores y valores.

is libertarianism. |le libertarianisme es|libertarismo es el libertarismo.

Libertarianism libertarismo El libertarismo

takes individual rights seriously. toma|individuales|derechos|en serio toma en serio los derechos individuales.

is the right to liberty. es|el|derecho|a|libertad es el derecho a la libertad.

Precisely because we are separate individual beings ||||||êtres precisamente|porque|nosotros|somos|separados|individuales|seres Precisamente porque somos seres individuales separados

we're not available |no|disponibles no estamos disponibles

to any use a|cualquier|uso para ningún uso

that the society might que|la|sociedad|pueda que la sociedad pudiera

separate human beings separar|humanos|seres seres humanos separados

and that means y|eso|significa y eso significa

a right to choose freely, ||||librement un|derecho|a|elegir|libremente un derecho a elegir libremente,

to do the same. para|hacer|lo|mismo para hacer lo mismo.

That's the fundamental idea. esa es|la|fundamental|idea Esa es la idea fundamental.

Robert Nozick, |Nozick robert|nozick Robert Nozick,

for this course, puts it this way. ||cours|le met||| para|este|curso|lo pone|eso|así|manera para este curso, lo expresa de esta manera.

Individuals have rights individuos|tienen|derechos Los individuos tienen derechos

so strong and far-reaching are these rights tan|fuertes|y|||son|estos|derechos Questi diritti sono così forti e di così ampia portata tan fuertes y de gran alcance son estos derechos

that they raise the question of what, if anything, que|ellos|plantean|la|pregunta|de|qué|si|algo 他们提出了一个问题：如果有的话， que plantean la pregunta de qué, si acaso,

the state may do. el|estado|puede|hacer lo Stato può fare. 国家可能会这样做。 puede hacer el estado.

So what does libertarianism say entonces|qué|dice|el libertarismo|(verbo decir) 那么自由主义怎么说 ¿Entonces qué dice el libertarismo?

about sobre sobre

the role of government el|papel|del|gobierno el papel del gobierno

or of the state? o|del|el|estado o del estado?

Well there are three things that most bueno|hay|son|tres|cosas|que|la mayoría Bueno, hay tres cosas que la mayoría

modern states do modernos|estados|hacen de los estados modernos hacen

are illegitimate, son|ilegítimos son ilegítimas,

are unjust. son|injustos sono ingiusti. son injustos.

One of them uno|de|ellos Uno de ellos

is paternalist legislation. |paternaliste| es|paternalista|legislación es la legislación paternalista.

Seat belt laws for example, |ceinture|lois|| cinturón|de seguridad|leyes|por|ejemplo Las leyes de cinturones de seguridad, por ejemplo,

or motorcycle helmet laws. o|motocicleta|casco|leyes o las leyes de cascos para motocicletas.

The libertarian says el|libertario|dice El libertario dice

it may be a good thing if people wear seat belts ||||||||||ceintures eso|puede ser|ser|una|buena|cosa|si|las personas|usan|cinturones|de seguridad que puede ser algo bueno si las personas usan cinturones de seguridad.

and the state, y|el|estado e lo Stato, y del estado,

the government, el|gobierno el gobierno,

has no business coercing them, |||à contraindre| tiene|ningún|negocio|coaccionar|a ellos non ha il diritto di costringerli, no tiene nada que hacer coaccionándolos,

to wear seat belts para|usar|asiento|cinturones usar cinturones de seguridad

by law. por|ley por ley.

It's coercion. es|coerción Es coerción.

So no paternalist legislation ||보호자적| entonces|no|paternalista|legislación Así que no hay legislación paternalista.

number one. Number two, número|uno|número|dos número uno. Número dos,

no morals legislation. no|moral|legislación sin legislación moral.

Many laws muchas|leyes Muchas leyes

try to promote intenta|a|promover intentan promover

the virtue of citizens |vertu|| la|virtud|de|los ciudadanos la virtud de los ciudadanos

or try to give expression o|intenta|a|dar|expresión o intentar dar expresión

to the moral a|la|moral a la moral

values valores valores

Libertarians say libertarios|dicen Los libertarios dicen

that's also |también que eso también

a violation of the right to liberty. una|violación|del|el|derecho|a|libertad es una violación del derecho a la libertad.

Take the example of, toma|el|ejemplo|de Toma el ejemplo de,

well a classic example of legislation offered in the name of promoting morality, ||||||offerte||||||moralité bueno|un|clásico|ejemplo|de|legislación|ofrecida|en|el|nombre|de|promover|moralidad bueno, un ejemplo clásico de legislación ofrecida en nombre de promover la moralidad,

traditionally tradicionalmente tradicionalmente

have been laws that prevent han|estado|leyes|que|previenen sono state leggi che impediscono han sido leyes que previenen

sexual intimacy |intimité sexual|intimidad intimità sessuale intimidad sexual

between entre entre entre

gays and lesbians. gais|y|lesbianas gays y lesbianas.

The libertarian says el|libertario|dice El libertario dice

nobody else is harmed, |||blessé nadie|más|está|herido nessun altro viene danneggiato, nadie más resulta dañado,

nobody else's rights are violated, ||||violés nadie|de los demás|derechos|son|violados los derechos de nadie más son violados,

so entonces así que

of trying to promote virtue de|tratar|de|promover|virtud de intentar promover la virtud

or to enact morals legislation. o|para|promulgar|moral|legislación o di emanare leggi sulla morale. o promulgar legislación moral.

or policy o|política o política

that is ruled out eso|está|descartado|fuera che è escluso eso está descartado

on the libertarian philosophy sobre|la|libertaria|filosofía en la filosofía libertaria

is any taxation hay|alguna|tributación cualquier impuesto

or other policy o|otra|política u otra política

that serves the purpose eso|sirve|el|propósito que sirve al propósito

of redistributing income or wealth |redistribuer||| de|redistribuir|ingreso|o|riqueza di ridistribuzione del reddito o della ricchezza de redistribuir ingresos o riqueza

from the rich to the poor. de|los|ricos|a|los|pobres de los ricos a los pobres.

Redistribution Redistribution redistribución Redistribución

is a kind, if you think about it, es|una|clase|si|tú|piensas|en|eso es una especie, si lo piensas bien,

says the libertarian, is a kind of coercion. dice|el|libertario|es|una|tipo|de|coerción dice el libertario, es una especie de coerción.

What it amounts to ||s'élève| qué|ello|equivale|a A cosa corrisponde Lo que equivale a

is theft |vol es|robo è un furto es robo

by the state por|el|estado dallo Stato por el estado

or by the majority, o|por|la|mayoría o dalla maggioranza, o por la mayoría,

that taxes people for the sake of |||||bien| eso|impuestos|a las personas|por|el|bien de| que taxe a las personas por el bien de

what everybody needs, lo que todos necesitan,

the national defense, la|nacional|defensa la defensa nacional,

police force, policía|fuerza fuerza policial,

judicial system to enforce |système judiciaire|| sistema|judicial|para|hacer cumplir sistema judicial para hacer cumplir

contracts and contrats| contratos|y contratti e contratos y

property rights, derechos de propiedad| derechos de propiedad,

but that's it. pero|eso es|eso ma questo è tutto. pero eso es todo.

Now, ahora Ahora,

to this third a|este|tercero a este tercero

feature característica característica

of the libertarian view. I want to see ||libertarienne||||| de|la|libertaria|opinión|yo|quiero|a|ver de la visión libertaria. Quiero ver

who among you quién|entre|ustedes chi tra voi quién de ustedes

agree with that idea and who disagree estoy de acuerdo|con|esa|idea|y|quien|no está de acuerdo está de acuerdo con esa idea y quién no

and why. y|por qué y por qué.

But just to make it concrete and to see what's at stake, |||||||||||enjeu pero|solo|para|hacer|esto|concreto|y|para|ver|lo que está|en|juego Ma solo per renderlo concreto e per capire cosa c'è in gioco, Pero solo para hacerlo concreto y ver lo que está en juego,

consider the distribution of wealth considera|la|distribución|de|riqueza considerare la distribuzione della ricchezza considera la distribución de la riqueza

in the United States. en|los|unidos|estados en los Estados Unidos.

The United States is among the most ||미국|||| los|unidos|estados|está|entre|los|más Los Estados Unidos están entre los más

inegalitarian societies as far as the distribution of wealth inégalitaires|||||||| ||||||||부의 inegalitarias|sociedades|en|cuanto|a|la|distribución|de|riqueza società inegalitarie per quanto riguarda la distribuzione della ricchezza sociedades inequitativas en lo que respecta a la distribución de la riqueza

of all the advanced democracies. de|todas|las|avanzadas|democracias de todas las democracias avanzadas.

Now, is this just ahora|es|esto|justo Ora, questo è solo Ahora, ¿es esto solo

or unjust? o|injusto o ingiusto? ¿o injusto?

Well, what does the libertarian say? ||||libertarien| bueno|qué|dice|el|libertario|dice Bueno, ¿qué dice el libertario?

The libertarian says el|libertario|dice El libertario dice

I've just given you. yo he|justo|dado|a ti Vi ho appena dato. Te acabo de dar.

is just or unjust. es|justo|o|injusto es justa o injusta.

You can't know just by looking at a pattern or a distribution or a result tú|no puedes|saber|solo|con|mirar|a|un|patrón|o|una|distribución|o|un|resultado Non si può sapere solo osservando un modello o una distribuzione o un risultato. No puedes saberlo solo mirando un patrón, una distribución o un resultado.

whether it's just or unjust. si|es|justo|o|injusto ya sea justo o injusto.

You have to look at two principles. tú|tienes|que|mirar|a|dos|principios Tienes que mirar dos principios.

or in initial holdings. |||participations o|en|inicial|tenencias o in partecipazioni iniziali. o en las tenencias iniciales.

So we need to know entonces|nosotros|necesitamos|que|saber Así que necesitamos saber

If not, si|no Si no,

if they were entitled to whatever it was that enabled them to |||ayant droit|||||||| si|ellos|estaban|autorizados|a|lo que sea|eso|fue|que|les permitió|a ellos|a se avessero diritto a qualsiasi cosa che permettesse loro di si tenían derecho a lo que fuera que les permitiera

gather the wealth, ||richesse reúne|la|riqueza raccogliere la ricchezza, reunir la riqueza,

the first principle is met. ||||respecté el|primer|principio|está|cumplido il primo principio è soddisfatto. se cumple el primer principio.

The second principle is el|segundo|principio|es El segundo principio es

did the distribution arise (verbo auxiliar)|la|distribución|surgir la distribuzione è avvenuta ¿surgió la distribución?

from the operation of free consent? |||||consentement de|la|operación|de|libre|consentimiento dal funzionamento del libero consenso? ¿de la operación del consentimiento libre?

People buying and trading on the market. las personas|comprando|y|comerciando|en|el|mercado Persone che acquistano e commerciano sul mercato. Las personas comprando y comerciando en el mercado.

As you can see the libertarian idea of justice como|tú|puedes|ver|la|libertaria|idea|de|justicia Como puedes ver, la idea libertaria de justicia

corresponds to a free market corresponde|a|un|libre|mercado corresponde a un mercado libre

conception of justice. concepción|de|justicia concepción de la justicia.

Provided people proporcionados|personas Persone fornite Siempre que las personas

got what they used obtuvieron|lo que|ellos|usaron hanno ottenuto quello che hanno usato obtengan lo que usaron

fairly, bastante justo,

didn't steal it, |voler| no|robé|eso non l'ha rubata, no lo robé,

and provided y|proporcionado e ha fornito y proporcioné

the distribution is just. la|distribución|es|justa la distribución es justa.

And if not, y|si|no Y si no,

it's unjust. es|injusto es injusta.

So let's in order to fix ideas for this discussion |||||||pour||discussion entonces|vamos a|en|orden|para|fijar|ideas|para|esta|discusión Así que vamos a fijar ideas para esta discusión.

take tomar tomar

an actual un| un|actual un ejemplo real.

example. exemple ejemplo ¿Quién es la persona más rica?

Who's the wealthiest person ||plus riche| quién es|la|más rica|persona

Bill Gates. Bill|Gates Bill Gates. Bill Gates.

It is. eso|es Así es.

That's right. eso|correcto Correcto.

Here he is. |il|est aquí|él|está Aquí está.

You'd be happy too. |estarías|feliz|también Anche tu saresti felice. Tú también estarías feliz.

Now, what's his net worth? ||||valeur ahora|cuál es|su|patrimonio|valor Qual è il suo patrimonio netto? Ahora, ¿cuál es su patrimonio neto?

Anybody have any idea? alguien|tiene|alguna|idea ¿Alguien tiene alguna idea?

That's a big number. eso es|un|grande|número Ese es un gran número.

During the Clinton years, remember there was a controversy, donors, big campaign contributors |||||||||donateurs||| durante|los|clinton|años|recuerda|había|una|una|controversia|donantes|grandes|campaña|contribuyentes Durante gli anni di Clinton, ricordiamo che ci fu una controversia, i donatori, i grandi contribuenti della campagna elettorale 记得克林顿执政期间，曾有一场争议，捐赠者，竞选大额捐款者 Durante los años de Clinton, recuerda que hubo una controversia, donantes, grandes contribuyentes de campaña

I think if you contributed $25,000 or above, ||||contribuez|| yo|pienso|si|tú|contribuiste|o|más Creo que si contribuías con $25,000 o más,

someone figured out |a compris| alguien|resolvió|(verbo auxiliar) qualcuno ha capito alguien lo descubrió

at the median contribution ||médiane| en|la|mediana|contribución al contributo mediano en la contribución mediana

that got you invited to stay a night in the Lincoln bedroom, |||||||||||chambre eso|te hizo|a ti|invitar|a|quedarte|una|noche|en|el|Lincoln|dormitorio que te invitó a quedarte una noche en el dormitorio de Lincoln,

Somebody else figured out alguien|más|resolvió|esto Alguien más lo descubrió

how much does he get paid on an hourly basis? |||||||||base cuánto|mucho|(verbo auxiliar)|él|recibe|pagado|por|una|hora|base quanto viene pagato su base oraria? ¿cuánto le pagan por hora?

And y Y

so they figured out since he began Microsoft ||||||a commencé| entonces|ellos|descubrieron|(verbo auxiliar)|desde que|él|comenzó|Microsoft así que descubrieron desde que comenzó en Microsoft

suppose he worked ||a travaillé supongamos|él|trabajó supongamos que trabajó

what, 14 hours |heures qué|horas ¿qué, 14 horas?

per day? por|día ¿por día?

Reasonable guess. |estimation razonable|suposición Suposición razonable.

And you calculate y|tú|calculas Y calculas

this net wealth. esta|neta|riqueza questa ricchezza netta. esta riqueza neta.

It turns out eso|resulta|que Resulta que

that his rate of que|su|tasa|de su tasa de

pay pagar pago

is es es

over sobre más de

$150, not pas no $150, no

per hour, por|hora por hora,

not per minute, no|por|minuto no por minuto,

$150, more than $150 per second, más|de|por|segundo $150, más de $150 por segundo,

which means cuál|significa lo que significa

that if on his way to the office eso|si|en|su|camino|hacia|la|oficina che, se si sta recando in ufficio que si en su camino a la oficina

Gates noticed a hundred dollar bill on the street, ||||||||rue gates|notó|un|cien|dólar|billete|en|la|calle Gates ha notato una banconota da cento dollari per strada, Gates notara un billete de cien dólares en la calle,

someone that wealthy alguien|tan|rico alguien tan rico

surely we can tax them seguramente|nosotros|podemos|gravar|a ellos seguramente podemos gravarlos

to meet para|conocer para cumplir

the pressing needs |pressing|besoins las|urgentes|necesidades las necesidades urgentes

of people de|personas de las personas

who lack an education |manquent|| quién|carecen|una|educación che non hanno un'istruzione que carecen de educación

or lack enough to eat ||suffisamment|| o|falta|suficiente|para|comer o carecen de suficiente comida

or lack decent housing. |||logement o|falta|decente|vivienda o carecen de vivienda digna.

They need it more than he does. ellos|necesitan|eso|más|que|él|lo hace Lo necesitan más que él.

And if you were a utilitarian |||étiez|| y|si|tú|fueras|un|utilitarista Y si fueras un utilitarista

what would you do? qué|harías|tú|hacer ¿qué harías?

What tax policy would you have? ||||tú| ¿Qué política fiscal tendrías?

You'd redistribute in a flash, wouldn't you? ||~에서||순간|| |redistribuirías|en|un|instante|no (verbo auxiliar)|tú Redistribuirías en un abrir y cerrar de ojos, ¿verdad?

Because you would know porque|tú|(verbo auxiliar condicional)|sabrías Porque lo sabrías

being a good utilitarian siendo|un|buen|utilitarista siendo un buen utilitarista

that taking some eso|tomando|algunos que tomar un poco

a small amount una|pequeña|cantidad una pequeña cantidad

and in the welfare of those at the bottom. |||bien-être||||| y|en|el|bienestar|de|aquellos|en|el|fondo y en el bienestar de aquellos en la parte inferior.

But remember pero|recuerda Pero recuerda

the libertarian theory says la|libertaria|teoría|dice la teoría libertaria dice

we can't just add up ||||ajouter nosotros|no podemos|simplemente|sumar|más non possiamo semplicemente sommare no podemos simplemente sumar

and aggregate |agrégat y|agregado e aggregato y agregar

preferences and satisfactions ||satisfactions preferencias|y|satisfacciones preferencias y satisfacciones

that way esa|manera de esa manera

we have to respect nosotros|tenemos|que|respetar tenemos que respetar

persons personas personas

and if he earned that money fairly y|si|él|ganó|ese|dinero|justamente y si ganó ese dinero de manera justa

without violating anybody else's rights sin|violar|nadie|de otros|derechos sin violar los derechos de nadie más

in accordance with the two principles of justice in acquisition and justice in transfer, de acuerdo con|la conformidad|con|los|dos|principios|de|justicia|en|adquisición|y|justicia|en|transferencia de acuerdo con los dos principios de justicia en la adquisición y justicia en la transferencia,

then entonces entonces

it would be wrong eso|sería|estar|incorrecto sería incorrecto

it would be a form of coercion ||||||coercition eso|sería|una|forma|forma|de|coerción sería una forma de coerción

to take it away. para|llevar|eso|lejos quitarlo.

Michael Jordan is not as wealthy as Bill Gates |||||riche||| michael|jordan|es|no|tan|rico|como|bill|gates Michael Jordan no es tan rico como Bill Gates

but he did pretty well for himself. ||||bien|pour| pero|él|hizo|bastante|bien|para|sí mismo pero le ha ido bastante bien.

You want to see Michael Jordan? |||||Jordan tú|quieres|a|ver|michael|jordan ¿Quieres ver a Michael Jordan?

There he is. allí|él|está Ahí está.

His income alone su|ingreso|solo Il suo reddito da solo Sus ingresos por sí solos

in one year was thirty one million dollars ||||trente||| en|un|año|fueron|treinta|uno|millones|dólares en un año fueron treinta y un millones de dólares

and then he made another forty seven million dollars in endorsements for Nike and other ||||||||||contrats|||| y|luego|él|ganó|otros|cuarenta|siete|millones|dólares|en|patrocinios|para|Nike|y|otros y luego ganó otros cuarenta y siete millones de dólares en patrocinios para Nike y otras

companies. empresas compañías.

So his income entonces|su|ingreso Así que sus ingresos

was fue fueron

to require him to pay a|requerir|él|que|pague para requerir que él pagara

let's say a third of his earnings ||||||revenu vamos a|decir|un|tercio|de|sus|ganancias Diciamo un terzo dei suoi guadagni. digamos que un tercio de sus ganancias

to the government a|el|gobierno al gobierno

to support good causes para|apoyar|buenas|causas para apoyar buenas causas

that's coercion |coercition eso es|coerción eso es coerción

that's unjust |injusto eso es injusto

that violates his eso|viola|su eso viola su

rights derechos derechos

and that's why y|eso es|por qué y por eso

redistribution is wrong. redistribución|es|incorrecta la redistribución está mal.

agree with the libertarian argument estoy de acuerdo|con|el|libertario|argumento están de acuerdo con el argumento libertario

trying to help the poor is wrong? intentar|a|ayudar|los|pobres|es|malo intentar ayudar a los pobres es incorrecta?

What's wrong with the libertarian case against qué|mal|con|el|libertario|caso|contra ¿Qué hay de malo en el argumento libertario en contra de

redistribution? redistribución la redistribución?

Yes. sí Sí.

and they received a larger y|ellos|recibieron|un|más grande y recibieron un regalo más grande

gift from the society regalo|de|la|sociedad de la sociedad

to give that through redistribution. para|dar|eso|a través de|redistribución dar eso a través de la redistribución.

you know tú|sabes sabes

but he's receiving more pero|él está|recibiendo|más pero él está recibiendo más

I don't think it's fair to say that you know yo|no|pienso|es|justo|que|decir|que|tú|sabes no creo que sea justo decir que sabes

it's all on his you know inherent eso|todo|en|su|tú|sabes|inherente è tutto a carico del suo patrimonio di conoscenze. todo depende de su, ya sabes, inherente

you know hard work. tú|sabes|duro|trabajo ya sabes, trabajo duro.

My name's Joe and I collect skateboards. ||||||skateboards mi|nombre es|Joe|y|yo|colecciono|patinetas Me llamo Joe y colecciono patinetas.

I think that is unjust. yo|pienso|que|es|injusto Creo que eso es injusto.

it becomes necessary to overlook that injustice, perhaps condone that ||||||||condonner| ||||무시하다||||| eso|se vuelve|necesario|a|pasar por alto|esa|injusticia|quizás|condonar|eso diventa necessario trascurare quell'ingiustizia, forse condonare quella se vuelve necesario pasar por alto esa injusticia, quizás condonar esa

injustice injusticia injusticia

it is necessary es|es|necesario es necesario

that we're still committing injustice que|estamos|todavía|cometiendo|injusticia que todavía estamos cometiendo injusticia

thirty three percent tax rate treinta|tres|por ciento|impuesto|tasa tipo impositivo del treinta y tres por ciento

for good causes por|buenas|causas para buenas causas

to feed the hungry a|alimentar|los|hambrientos alimentar a los hambrientos

is theft? |vol es|robo ¿es robo?

to condone that theft. |condonner||vol para|condonar|ese|robo justificar ese robo.

But it's theft. pero|es|robo Pero es robo.

Yes. sí Sí.

Why is it theft, Joe? |||vol| por qué|es|eso|robo|Joe ¿Por qué es robo, Joe?

Because... Why is it like your collection of skateboards? ||||||||skateboards porque|por qué|es|eso|como|tu|colección|de|patinetas Porque... ¿Por qué es como tu colección de patinetas?

It's theft because es|robo|porque Es un robo porque

at least in my opinion and by the libertarian opinion al|menos|en|mi|opinión|y|por|la|libertaria|opinión al menos en mi opinión y según la opinión libertaria

he earned that money fairly él|ganó|ese|dinero|justamente él ganó ese dinero de manera justa

and y y

it belongs to him so to take it from him is by definition theft. eso|pertenece|a|él|así que|a|quitar|eso|de|él|es|por|definición|robo appartiene a lui, quindi sottrarglielo è per definizione un furto. le pertenece, así que quitarlo de él es, por definición, robo.

Alright let's see if there's a... bien|vamos a|ver|si||un Está bien, veamos si hay un...

Yes, go ahead. sí|ve|adelante Sí, adelante.

and y y

the government... or you have a hundred skateboards and the government's taking ninety nine of them. el|gobierno|o|tú|tienes|una|cien|patinetas|y|el||quitando|noventa|nueve|de|ellas el gobierno... o tienes cien patinetas y el gobierno está tomando noventa y nueve de ellas.

It's like you have more skateboards than there are es|como|tú|tienes|más|patinetas|que|hay|están Es como si tuvieras más patinetas de las que hay.

days in a year. You have more skateboards than you're going to be able to use in your entire días|en|un|año|tú|tienes|más|patinetas|de las que|vas a|poder|a|estar|poder|a|usar|en|tu|entero días en un año. Tienes más patinetas de las que vas a poder usar en toda tu

lifetime vida vida

and the government is taking y|el|gobierno|está|tomando y el gobierno está tomando

part of those. ||ceux parte|de|esos parte de esas.

And I think that if you're operating in a society y|yo|pienso|que|si|estás|operando|en|una|sociedad Y creo que si estás operando en una sociedad

in which the government's... en|la cual|el|del gobierno en la que el gobierno...

in which the government doesn't redistribute wealth |||||redistribue| en|la cual|el|gobierno|no|redistribuye|riqueza en la que el gobierno no redistribuye la riqueza

that that allows for people to amass so much wealth ||||||amasser||| eso|que|permite|para|las personas|a|acumular|tanto|mucha|riqueza eso permite que las personas acumulen tanta riqueza

that doesn't exist in our real society eso||existe|en|nuestra|real|sociedad que no existe en nuestra sociedad real

get undercut for the rest of their lives. obtener|socavado|por|el|resto|de|sus|vidas vengono sottoquotati per il resto della loro vita. se ven perjudicadas por el resto de sus vidas.

at the bottom en|el|fondo en la parte inferior

there will be no genuine equality of opportunity. |||||égalité|| habrá|(verbo auxiliar futuro)|(verbo ser)|ninguna|genuina|igualdad|de|oportunidad no habrá una verdadera igualdad de oportunidades.

The idea that taxation is theft |||||vol la|idea|que|la tributación|es|robo La idea de que la tributación es un robo

Nozick takes that point one step further. ||||||plus nozick|lleva|ese|punto|un|paso|más lejos Nozick fa un ulteriore passo avanti. Nozick lleva ese punto un paso más allá.

He agrees that it's theft. él|está de acuerdo|que|es|robo Él está de acuerdo en que es un robo.

He's more demanding than Joe. Joe says it is theft |||||||||vol él|más|exigente|que|Joe|Joe|dice|eso|es|robo Él es más exigente que Joe. Joe dice que es un robo.

maybe in an extreme case it's justified ||||||justifié quizás|en|un|extremo|caso|está|justificado forse in un caso estremo è giustificato Quizás en un caso extremo esté justificado.

maybe tal vez quizás

a parent un|padre un padre

is justified in stealing a loaf of bread |||||pain|| está|justificado|en|robar|un|pan|de|pan è giustificato a rubare una pagnotta di pane esté justificado en robar una barra de pan

to feed his or her hungry family. para|alimentar|su|o|su|hambrienta|familia para alimentar a su familia hambrienta.

So Joe is a... what would you call yourself? A compassionate quasi-libertarian? |||||||||||quasi| entonces|Joe|es|un|qué|(verbo auxiliar)|tú|llamar|a ti mismo|un|compasivo|| Entonces Joe es un... ¿cómo te llamarías? ¿Un cuasi-libertario compasivo?

Nozick says nozick|dice Nozick dice

if you think about it si|tú|piensas|en|eso si lo piensas bien

taxation tributación la tributación

amounts to the taking of earnings. montants||||| equivale|a|la|toma|de|ganancias equivale all'acquisizione di un guadagno. equivale a la toma de ganancias.

In other words it means en|otras|palabras|eso|significa En otras palabras, significa

taking tomando tomar

the fruits las|frutas los frutos

of my labor. ||travail de|mi|trabajo de mi trabajo.

But if the state has the right pero|si|el|estado|tiene|el|derecho Pero si el estado tiene el derecho

to take my earnings or the fruits of my labor para|tomar|mis|ganancias|o|los|frutos|de|mi|trabajo de tomar mis ganancias o los frutos de mi trabajo

isn't that morally the same no es|eso|moralmente|lo|mismo ¿no es eso moralmente lo mismo?

as according to the state como|de acuerdo|a|el|estado come secondo lo Stato según el estado

the right el|derecho el derecho

to claim |revendiquer a|reclamar a reclamar

a portion of my labor? ||||travail una|porción|de|mi|trabajo una parte de mi trabajo?

So taxation actually entonces|tributación|en realidad Así que la tributación en realidad

is morally equivalent es|moralmente|equivalente es moralmente equivalente

to forced labor a|trabajo forzado|trabajo ai lavori forzati al trabajo forzado

because forced labor |de travail forcé| porque|forzada|trabajo porque el trabajo forzado

involves the taking implique|| implica|la|toma implica la toma

of my leisure, my time, my efforts ||loisir|||| de|mi|ocio|mi|tiempo|mis|esfuerzos de mi ocio, mi tiempo, mis esfuerzos

just as taxation justo|como|tributación así como la tributación

takes the earnings toma|las|ganancias toma las ganancias

that I make que|yo|haga que hago

with my labor. con|mi|trabajo con mi trabajo.

And so for Nozick y|así|para|Nozick Y así para Nozick

and for the libertarians y|para|los|libertarios y para los libertarios

taxation for redistribution tributación|para|redistribución la tributación para la redistribución

is theft as Joe says es|robo|como|Joe|dice es robo, como dice Joe

but not only theft pero|no|solo|robo pero no solo robo

it's morally equivalent es|moralmente|equivalente es moralmente equivalente

to laying claim |faire|revendiquer a|reclamar|derecho a reclamar

to certain hours a|ciertas|horas ciertas horas

of a person's life de|una|persona|vida de la vida

and labor. y|trabajo y el trabajo de una persona.

If the state has a right to claim the fruits of my labor si|el|estado|tiene|un|derecho|a|reclamar|los|frutos|de|mi|trabajo Se lo Stato ha il diritto di reclamare i frutti del mio lavoro Si el estado tiene derecho a reclamar los frutos de mi trabajo

that implies that it really eso|implica|que|ello|realmente eso implica que realmente

has an entitlement ||droit tiene|un|derecho ha un diritto tiene un derecho

to my labor itself. a|mi|trabajo|mismo al mio lavoro stesso. a mi trabajo en sí mismo.

And what is forced labor? y|qué|es|trabajo forzado|trabajo ¿Y qué es el trabajo forzado?

Forced labor trabajo forzado|trabajo Trabajo forzado

Nozick points out nozick|señala|hacia Nozick señala

is what? es|qué ¿qué es?

Is slavery. |esclavage es|esclavitud Es esclavitud.

Because if I don't have the right, the sole right ||||||||seul| porque|si|yo|no|tengo|el|derecho|el|único|derecho Porque si no tengo el derecho, el único derecho

to my own labor, a|mi|propio|trabajo a mi propio trabajo,

then entonces entonces

that's really to say that the government or the eso|realmente|que|decir|que|el|gobierno|o|el eso realmente quiere decir que el gobierno o la

political community 정치적| comunidad política| comunidad política

is a part owner in me. |||propriétaire|| |한|일부||| es|un|parte|dueño|en|mí es un copropietario en mí.

And what does it mean for the state to be a part owner in me? y|qué|significa|eso|significa|para|el|estado|a|ser|un|parte|dueño|en|mí ¿Y qué significa que el estado sea copropietario de mí?

If you think about it, si|tú|piensas|en|eso Si lo piensas,

it means eso|significa significa

that I'm a slave, que|soy|un|esclavo que soy un esclavo,

that I don't own myself. que|yo|no|poseo|a mí mismo que no poseo yo mismo.

is the fundamental ||fondamental es|el|fundamental es el fundamental

principle principio principio

What is that principle? qué|es|ese|principio ¿Cuál es ese principio?

It's the idea ||idée es|la|idea Es la idea

that I own myself. que|yo|poseo|a mí mismo de que me pertenezco a mí mismo.

It's the idea es|la|idea Es la idea

of self-possession. de|| de la autodisciplina.

the fundamental moral idea la|fundamental|moral|idea la idea moral fundamental

is the idea es|la|idea es la idea

that we are the owners or the proprietors of our own person. |||||||propriétaires|||| |||||||소유자|||| que|nosotros|somos|los|dueños|o|los|propietarios|de|nuestra|propia|persona de que somos los dueños o los propietarios de nuestra propia persona.

And that's why y|eso es|por qué Y por eso

utilitarianism goes wrong. utilitarismo|va|mal el utilitarismo se equivoca.

You're acting as if tú estás|actuando|como|si Estás actuando como si

that patient belongs to you or to the community, ese|paciente|pertenece|a|ti|o|a|la|comunidad quel paziente appartiene a voi o alla comunità, ese paciente te pertenece a ti o a la comunidad,

but we belong to ourselves. ||appartenons||nous-mêmes pero|nosotros|pertenecemos|a|nosotros mismos pero nosotros nos pertenecemos a nosotros mismos.

And that's the same reason y|esa es|la|misma|razón Y esa es la misma razón

that it's wrong to make laws to protect us from ourselves ||||||||||nous-mêmes que|es|incorrecto|hacer||leyes|para|proteger|nosotros|de|nosotros mismos che è sbagliato fare leggi per proteggerci da noi stessi por la que está mal hacer leyes para protegernos de nosotros mismos.

to tell us what virtues ||||vertus para|decir|nosotros|qué|virtudes para decirnos qué virtudes

we should be governed by. |||gouvernés| nosotros|deberíamos|ser|gobernados|por da cui dovremmo essere governati. deberíamos seguir.

to tax a|gravar imponer impuestos

even for good causes, incluso|por|buenas|causas incluso para buenas causas,

Ask them to give charity, pide|a ellos|que|den|caridad Chiedete loro di fare beneficenza, Pídeles que den caridad,

but if you tax them, pero|si|tú|gravas|a ellos pero si los gravan,

Could you podría|tú ¿Podrías

week's games and go down to help de la semana|juegos|y|ve|abajo|a|ayudar della settimana e scendere ad aiutare juego de la semana y bajar a ayudar

the people la|gente a las personas

displaced by hurricane Katrina? desplazados|por|huracán|katrina desplazadas por el huracán Katrina?

Morally it's the same. moralement||| moralmente|es|lo|mismo Moralmente es lo mismo.

So the stakes are very high. ||enjeux||| entonces|las|apuestas|son|muy|altas La posta in gioco è quindi molto alta. Así que las apuestas son muy altas.

to the libertarian argument, al|el|libertario|argumento al argumento libertario,

but if you want to reject it, pero|si|tú|quieres|a|rechazar|eso pero si quieres rechazarlo,

taking my earnings ||revenu tomando|mis|ganancias tomar mis ganancias

is like es|como es como

taking my labor, tomando|mi|trabajo tomando mi trabajo,

but taking my labor |prenant|| pero|tomando|mi|trabajo pero tomando mi trabajo

is making me a slave. está|haciendo|me|un|esclavo me está convirtiendo en un esclavo.

And if you disagree with that, y|si|tú|no estás de acuerdo|con|eso Y si no estás de acuerdo con eso,

you must believe in the principle of self-possession. |||||principe|||maîtrise de soi tú|debes|creer|en|el|principio|de|| debes creer en el principio de la autodisciplina.

Those who aquellos|que Aquellos que

disagree, desacuerdo no están de acuerdo,

gather your objections reúne|tus|objeciones raccogliere le obiezioni reúne tus objeciones

Anyone like to take up that point? alguien|le gustaría|a|tomar|ese|ese|punto Qualcuno vuole rispondere a questa domanda? ¿A alguien le gustaría abordar ese punto?

I feel like when you live in a society you give up that right. I mean technically if I |||||||||||abandonner||droit||||| yo|siento|como|cuando|tú|vives|en|una|sociedad|tú|das|up|ese|derecho|yo|quiero decir|técnicamente|si|yo Mi sembra che quando si vive in una società si rinunci a questo diritto. Voglio dire che tecnicamente se io Siento que cuando vives en una sociedad renuncias a ese derecho. Quiero decir, técnicamente si yo

want to personally go out and kill someone because they offend me, that is self-possession. quiero|a|personalmente|salir|afuera|y|matar|a alguien|porque|ellos|me ofenden|a mí|eso|es|| quiero salir personalmente y matar a alguien porque me ofende, eso es autoconciencia.

Victoria, are you questioning victoria|estás|tú|cuestionando Victoria, ¿estás cuestionando

the fundamental premise of self-possession? la|fundamental|premisa|de|| la premisa fundamental de la autodisciplina?

Yes. sí Sí.

I think that you don't really have self-possession if you choose to live in a society because yo|pienso|que|tú|no|realmente|tienes|||si|tú|eliges|a|vivir|en|una|sociedad|porque Creo que realmente no tienes autocontrol si eliges vivir en una sociedad porque

you cannot just discount tú|no puedes|simplemente|descontar no puedes simplemente desestimar

the people around you. la|gente|alrededor|ti a las personas que te rodean.

We were talking last time about libertarianism. ||||fois|| nosotros|estábamos|hablando|última|vez|sobre|libertarismo Estábamos hablando la última vez sobre el libertarismo.

I want to go back to the arguments for and against the redistribution of income, yo|quiero|a|ir|de regreso|a|los|argumentos|a favor|y|en contra|la|redistribución|de|ingresos Voglio tornare agli argomenti a favore e contro la redistribuzione del reddito, Quiero volver a los argumentos a favor y en contra de la redistribución de ingresos,

but before we do that, pero|antes de que|nosotros|hagamos|eso pero antes de hacer eso,

just one word about solo|una|palabra|sobre solo una palabra sobre

the minimal state. el|mínimo|estado el estado mínimo.

Martin Friedman, Martín|Friedman Martin Friedman,

the libertarian economist, el|libertario|economista el economista libertario,

he points out él|señala|hacia señala

that many of the functions esas|muchas|de|las|funciones que muchas de las funciones

that we take for granted que|nosotros|damos|por|sentado que damos por sentado

They are paternalist. One example he gives is social security. ellos|son|paternalistas|un|ejemplo|él|da|es|seguridad|social Son paternalistas. Un ejemplo que da es la seguridad social.

He says it's a good idea ||||bonne| él|dice|que es|una|buena|idea Él dice que es una buena idea

for people to save for their retirement |||épargner|||retraite para|las personas|que|ahorren|para|su|jubilación para que las personas ahorren para su jubilación

during their earning years, ||gagnant| durante|sus|de ganancias|años durante sus años de ingresos,

but it's wrong. pero|está|mal pero está mal.

for the government to force para|el|gobierno|a|forzar para que el gobierno obligue

everyone, todos a todos,

to put aside some ||de côté| para|poner|a un lado|algunos a apartar algo

earnings today revenus| ganancias|hoy ganancias hoy

for the sake of their retirement. If people want to take the chance, por|el|bien|de|su|jubilación|si|las personas|quieren|a|tomar|la|oportunidad per il bene della loro pensione. Se le persone vogliono correre il rischio, por el bien de su jubilación. Si la gente quiere arriesgarse,

a poor un|pobre pobre

retirement, jubilación jubilación,

that should be their choice. eso|debería|ser|su|elección esa debería ser su elección.

They should be free ellos|deberían|estar|libres Deberían ser libres

So even social security entonces|incluso|seguridad|social Así que incluso la seguridad social

would still be at odds with the minimal state |||의해||||| (verbo auxiliar)|aún|estar|en|desacuerdo|con|el|mínimo|estado sarebbe ancora in contrasto con lo Stato minimo seguiría estando en desacuerdo con el estado mínimo

that Milton Friedman |밀턴| ese|Milton|Friedman que Milton Friedman

argued for. argumentó|por defendió.

It's sometimes thought that |||que a veces|se|piensa|que A volte si pensa che A veces se piensa que

collective goods like police protection |biens|||protection bienes colectivos|bienes|como|protección policial|protección beni collettivi come la protezione della polizia los bienes colectivos como la protección policial

and fire protection ||protection y|fuego|protección y la protección contra incendios

will inevitably create the problem of free riders unless they're publicly provided. |inévitablement|créer||||||à moins|||fournies (verbo auxiliar futuro)|inevitable|crear|el|problema|de|gratis|pasajeros|a menos que|ellos están|públicamente|proporcionados creeranno inevitabilmente il problema dei free riders, a meno che non siano forniti pubblicamente. inevitablemente crearán el problema de los polizones a menos que se proporcionen públicamente.

But there are ways pero|hay|maneras|formas Pero hay maneras

to a de

prevent free riders. There are ways to ||riders|||| prevenir|libres|jinetes|hay|maneras|formas|de prevenir a los aprovechados. Hay maneras de

restrict even seemingly collective goods like fire protection. ||apparemment||||| |||||||보호 restringir|incluso|aparentemente|colectivos|bienes|como|protección contra incendios|protección limitare anche beni apparentemente collettivi come la protezione antincendio. restringir incluso bienes que parecen colectivos como la protección contra incendios.

I read an article yo|leí|un|artículo Leí un artículo

a while back about a private fire company, the Salem Fire Corporation in Arkansas. |||||||||Salem|||| una|rato|atrás|acerca de|una|privada|compañía de bomberos|compañía|la|salem|fuego|corporación|en|arkansas qualche tempo fa su una compagnia privata di pompieri, la Salem Fire Corporation in Arkansas. hace un tiempo sobre una compañía de bomberos privada, la Corporación de Bomberos de Salem en Arkansas.

You can sign up with the Salem Fire Corporation, ||||||Salem||Société tú|puedes|inscribirte|en|con|la|Salem|Cuerpo de Bomberos|Corporación È possibile iscriversi alla Salem Fire Corporation, Puedes inscribirte en la Corporación de Bomberos de Salem,

pay a yearly subscription fee, pagar|una|anual|suscripción|cuota pagare un abbonamento annuale, pagar una tarifa de suscripción anual,

and if your house catches on fire, ||||prend feu|| y|si|tu|casa|se incendia|en|fuego e se la casa prende fuoco, y si tu casa se incendia,

But they won't put out pero|ellos|no van a|poner|afuera Ma non vogliono mettere fuori Pero no apagarán

everybody's fire. |fuego il fuoco di tutti. el fuego de todos.

if it's a fire si|es|un|fuego si es un incendio

in the home of a en|la|casa|de|un en la casa de un

subscriber or if it starts to spread ||||||se propager suscriptor|o|si|eso|comienza|a|propagarse abbonato o se inizia a diffondersi suscriptor o si comienza a propagarse

and to threaten ||menacer y|a|amenazar y amenazar

the home of a subscriber. el|hogar|de|un|suscriptor el hogar de un suscriptor.

The newspaper article el|periódico|artículo El artículo del periódico

told the story of a homeowner who had subscribed |||||propriétaire||| contó|la|historia|de|un|propietario|que|había|suscrito ha raccontato la storia di un proprietario di casa che aveva abbonato contó la historia de un propietario que se había suscrito

and watched the house burn, y|vi|la|casa|arder y observó cómo se quemaba la casa,

just making sure that it didn't spread. solo|asegurando|que|eso|no|se|propagara solo per assicurarsi che non si diffondesse. solo asegurándome de que no se propagara.

The fire chief was asked, el|fuego|jefe|fue|preguntado Se le preguntó al jefe de bomberos,

well he wasn't exactly the fire chief, I guess he was the CEO. bueno|él|no era|exactamente|el|bomberos|jefe|yo|supongo|él|era|el|director ejecutivo Beh, non era esattamente il capo dei vigili del fuoco, credo fosse l'amministratore delegato. bueno, no era exactamente el jefe de bomberos, supongo que era el CEO.

He was asked, él|fue|preguntado Se le preguntó,

how can you stand by with fire equipment |||se débrouiller|||| cómo|puedes|tú|estar|de pie|con|equipo de fuego|equipo come si può stare in attesa con l'attrezzatura antincendio ¿cómo puedes quedarte de pie con el equipo de incendios?

He replied, él|respondió Él respondió,

we had no choice nosotros|tuvimos|ninguna|opción no tuvimos otra opción

but to back off pero|a|retroceder|alejarse sino retroceder

The homeowner, in this case, |propriétaire||| el|propietario|en|este|caso El propietario de la casa, en este caso,

tried to renew his subscription at the scene of the fire, trató|de|renovar|su|suscripción|en|la|escena|del|el|fuego ha cercato di rinnovare il suo abbonamento sul luogo dell'incendio, intentó renovar su suscripción en el lugar del incendio,

but the head of the company refused. ||responsable|||| pero|el|jefe|de|la|compañía|se negó pero el jefe de la empresa se negó.

You can't wreck your car, he said, and then buy insurance for it later. ||casser||voiture||||||||| tú|no puedes|chocar|tu|carro|él|dijo|y|luego|comprar|seguro|para|eso|después No puedes destrozar tu coche, dijo, y luego comprar un seguro para él más tarde.

So, even public goods entonces|incluso|bienes|públicos Quindi, anche i beni pubblici Así que, incluso los bienes públicos

that we take for granted as being within the proper province of government, ||||évident|comme||||||| |우리가||||으로|존재하는|내부의|||||정부 que|nosotros|damos|por|sentado|como|siendo|dentro|la|adecuada|provincia|del|gobierno che diamo per scontato essere di competenza del governo, que damos por sentado como parte del ámbito adecuado del gobierno,

be ser ser

isolated, made exclusive to those who pay. ||||ceux|| aislado|hecho|exclusivo|a|aquellos|que|pagan aislados, hechos exclusivos para aquellos que pagan.

That's all to do with eso|todo|con|hacer|respecto a Eso tiene que ver con

the question of collective goods la|cuestión|de|bienes|colectivos la cuestión de los bienes colectivos

and the libertarians' injunction against |||injunction| y|la|de los libertarios|orden|contra e l'ingiunzione dei libertari contro y la prohibición de los libertarios contra

paternalism. paternalisme paternalismo el paternalismo.

arguments about redistribution. argumentos|sobre|redistribución argumentos sobre la redistribución.

Now, ahora Ahora,

underlying subyacente subyacente

the libertarians' case el|de los libertarios|caso el caso de los libertarios

for the minimal state para|el|mínimo|estado por el estado mínimo

The libertarian offers this answer. el|libertario|ofrece|esta|respuesta El libertario ofrece esta respuesta.

To coerce someone, |forcer|quelqu'un a|coaccionar|alguien Costringere qualcuno, Coaccionar a alguien,

to use some person for the sake of the general welfare ||||||bien|||bien-être|bien-être para|usar|alguna|persona|por|el|bien|de|el|general|bienestar utilizzare una persona per il benessere generale usar a alguna persona en beneficio del bienestar general

is wrong está|mal es incorrecto

because it calls into question the fundamental fact ||||||fondamental| ||문제에 제기하다||||근본적인| porque|eso|cuestiona|en|duda|el|fundamental|hecho porque cuestiona el hecho fundamental

that we own ourselves. |||nous que|nosotros|poseemos|a nosotros mismos que nos pertenecemos a nosotros mismos.

The fundamental moral fact el|fundamental|moral|hecho El hecho moral fundamental

of self-possession or self-ownership. de|||o|| de la auto-possession o auto-propiedad.

The libertarians' argument against redistribution el|de los libertarios|argumento|en contra de|redistribución El argumento de los libertarios contra la redistribución

begins with this fundamental idea that we own ourselves. ||||||nous|| comienza|con|esta|fundamental|idea|que|nosotros|poseemos|a nosotros mismos comienza con esta idea fundamental de que somos dueños de nosotros mismos.

Nozick says nozick|dice Nozick dice

that if eso|si que si

the society as a whole la|sociedad|como|un|todo la società nel suo complesso la sociedad en su conjunto

can go to Bill Gates puedo|ir|a|Bill|Gates puede ir a Bill Gates

or go to Michael Jordan o|ve|a|michael|jordan o ir a Michael Jordan

and tax away a portion y|impuesto|lejos|una|porción e tassare una parte y gravar una parte

of their wealth, de|su|riqueza de su riqueza,

is a collective property right |||propriété| es|un|colectiva|propiedad|derecho è un diritto di proprietà collettiva es un derecho de propiedad colectiva

in Bill Gates en|Bill|Gates en Bill Gates

or in Michael Jordan. |dans|| o|en|Michael|Jordan o en Michael Jordan.

But that violates pero|eso|viola Ma questo viola Pero eso viola

the fundamental principle |fondamental| el|fundamental|principio el principio fundamental

that we belong to ourselves. que|nosotros|pertenecemos|a|nosotros mismos che apparteniamo a noi stessi. de que pertenecemos a nosotros mismos.

to the libertarian argument. a|el|libertario|argumento al argumento libertario.

is to give es|a|dar es dar

the libertarians among us ||parmi| los|libertarios|entre|nosotros i libertari tra noi a los libertarios entre nosotros

that have been raised. |||élevées que|han|sido|criadas que se han planteado.

And some have been, some y|algunos|han|estado|algunos Y algunos lo han hecho, algunos

come and make the case ven|y|haz|el|caso ven y presenta el caso

for libertarianism to reply to the objections that have been raised. para|el libertarismo|a|responder|a|las|objeciones|que|han|sido|planteadas para el libertarismo en respuesta a las objeciones que se han planteado.

So raise your hand if you are among the libertarians |||||||parmi|| entonces|levanta|tu|mano|si|tú|estás|entre|los|libertarios Así que levanta la mano si eres uno de los libertarios

who's prepared to stand up |préparé||| |preparado|para|levantarse|arriba que está preparado para defenderse

for the theory and respond to the objections. para|la|teoría|y|responde|a|las|objeciones por la teoría y responder a las objeciones.

You are tú|eres Tú eres

Alex Harris who's been a alex|harris|quien ha sido|estado|un Alex Harris, quien ha sido un

star on the web blog. estrella|en|el|web|blog estrella en el blog web.

We'll create a libertarian corner over here. |||||ici| nosotros (verbo auxiliar futuro)|crearemos|un|libertario|rincón|aquí|aquí Crearemos un rincón libertario aquí.

Who else? Other libertarians quién|más|otros|libertarios ¿Quién más? Otros libertarios

who will join? quién|(verbo auxiliar futuro)|se unirá chi si unirà? ¿quién se unirá?

What's your name? cuál es|tu|nombre ¿Cuál es tu nombre?

John Sheffield. Juan|Sheffield John Sheffield.

Who else wants to join? quién|más|quiere|a|unirse ¿Quién más quiere unirse?

Other brave libertarians who are prepared |autres|||| otros|valientes|libertarios|que|están|preparados Otros valientes libertarios que están preparados

to take on, yes, a|tomar|en|sí da assumere, sì, asumir, sí,

what's your name? |tu|nombre ¿cuál es tu nombre?

Julia Roto, Julia, come. julia|roto||ven Julia Roto, Julia, ven.

Join us over there. únete|a nosotros|allá|allí Unisciti a noi laggiù. Únete a nosotros allá.

Now while the, ahora|mientras|el Ahora mientras el,

while Team Libertarian, mientras|equipo|libertario mientras el Equipo Libertario,

Julia, John, Alex, julia|juan|alex Julia, John, Alex,

while Team Libertarian is gathering over there, |l'équipe|||se rassemble|| mientras|equipo|libertario|está|reuniéndose|allá|allí mentre il Team Libertarian si riunisce laggiù, mientras el Equipo Libertario se reúne allí,

let me just summarize (verbo auxiliar)|me|solo|resumir déjame resumir

in class and on the website. |||||site web en|clase|y|en|el|sitio web en clase y en el sitio web.

Objection number one, objection|un| objeción|número|uno Objeción número uno,

So objection number one entonces|objeción|número|uno Así que la objeción número uno

is that es|eso es que

That's an obvious objection. |||objection eso es|una|obvia|objeción Esa es una objeción obvia.

A lot more un|montón|más Mucho más

than que que

do hacer hacer

Bill Gates and Michael Jordan. |||Michael|Jordan bill|gates|y|michael|jordan Bill Gates y Michael Jordan.

Objection number two, |un| objeción|número|dos Objeción número dos,

it's not really slavery to tax |||esclavage|| no es|realmente|esclavitud|esclavitud|para|gravar no es realmente esclavitud gravar

because porque porque

it's not a slave holder. ||||propriétaire no es|no|un|esclavo|dueño non è un detentore di schiavi. no es un propietario de esclavos.

It's Congress. |le Congrès es|congreso È il Congresso. Es el Congreso.

So taxation by consent of the governed is not coerced. entonces|la tributación|por|consentimiento|de|los|gobernados|es|no|forzada Quindi la tassazione per consenso dei governati non è forzata. Por lo tanto, la tributación con el consentimiento de los gobernados no es forzada.

like Gates como|Gates como Gates

Who wants to respond to the first one? The poor need the money more. quién|quiere|a|responder|a|el|primero|uno|los|pobres|necesitan|el|dinero|más ¿Quién quiere responder al primero? Los pobres necesitan el dinero más.

John. Juan Juan.

John, what's the answer? Juan|cuál es|la|respuesta Juan, ¿cuál es la respuesta?

That's quite obvious. c'est||évident eso es|bastante|obvio Eso es bastante obvio.

I'd take a thousand. yo (would)|tomaría|un|mil Io ne prenderei mille. Tomaría mil.

But at some point pero|en|algún|momento Pero en algún momento

you have to understand that the benefits of redistribution of wealth don't justify the tú|tienes que|que|entender|que|los|beneficios|de|redistribución|de|riqueza|no|justifican|los tienes que entender que los beneficios de la redistribución de la riqueza no justifican el

If you look at the argument the poor need the money more, at no point in that argument si|tú|miras|a|el|argumento|los|pobres|necesitan|el|dinero|más|en|ningún|punto|en|ese|argumento Si miras el argumento de que los pobres necesitan el dinero más, en ningún momento de ese argumento

do you contradict the fact that we've extrapolated from agreed upon principles that people own |||||||extrapolons||||||| (verbo auxiliar)|tú|contradices|el|hecho|que|hemos|extrapolado|de|acordados|sobre|principios|que|las personas|poseen contradices el hecho de que hemos extrapolado de principios acordados que las personas poseen

themselves. ellos mismos a sí mismos.

And so whether or not it would be a good thing or a nice thing or even a necessary thing y|así|si|o|no|eso|sería|ser|una|buena|cosa|o|una|agradable|cosa|o|incluso|una|necesaria|cosa Y así, si sería algo bueno, agradable o incluso necesario

we don't see that that justifies the violation of the right that we've logically extrapolated. |||||||||||||logiquement|extrapolé nosotros|no|vemos|eso|eso|justifica|la|violación|del|el|derecho|que||lógicamente|extrapolado 我们不认为这可以证明侵犯我们逻辑上推断的权利是正当的。 no vemos que eso justifique la violación del derecho que hemos extrapolado lógicamente.

And so that also, I mean y|así|eso|también|yo|quiero decir E quindi anche questo, voglio dire Y así, eso también, quiero decir

like individual philanthropy. Milton Friedman makes this argument. ||philanthropie||||| como|individual|filantropía|Milton|Friedman|hace|este|argumento como la filantropía individual. Milton Friedman hace este argumento.

But it would still be wrong to coerce him |||||||forcer| pero|eso|sería|aún|estar|incorrecto|a|coaccionar|él Pero aún sería incorrecto coaccionarlo

to meet the needs of the poor. para|satisfacer|las|necesidades|de|los|pobres para satisfacer las necesidades de los pobres.

Are the two of you happy with that reply? ||||||de cette|cette| están|ustedes|dos|de|ustedes|felices|con|esa|respuesta ¿Están ustedes dos contentos con esa respuesta?

Anything to add? algo|que|agregar ¿Algo que agregar?

Go ahead, Julie. adelante|sigue|julie Adelante, Julie.

there's a difference between needing something and deserving something. I mean in an ideal society |||||||mériter||||||| hay|una|diferencia|entre|necesitar|algo|y|merecer|algo|yo|quiero decir|en|una|ideal|sociedad c'è una differenza tra avere bisogno di qualcosa e meritarsi qualcosa. Voglio dire che in una società ideale hay una diferencia entre necesitar algo y merecer algo. Quiero decir, en una sociedad ideal

everyone's needs be met, las necesidades de todos|necesidades|sean|satisfechas soddisfare le esigenze di tutti, se satisfacen las necesidades de todos,

but here we're arguing what do we deserve as a society. pero|aquí||discutiendo|qué|(verbo auxiliar)|nosotros|merecemos|como|una|sociedad ma qui stiamo discutendo di cosa ci meritiamo come società. pero aquí estamos discutiendo qué merecemos como sociedad.

And the poor don't deserve y|los|pobres|no|merecen Y los pobres no merecen

don't deserve no|merezco no merecen

you deserve something like that. tú|mereces|algo|como|eso merezcan algo así.

The victims of Hurricane Katrina las|víctimas|de|huracán|katrina Las víctimas del huracán Katrina

are in desperate need of help. ||désespérée||| están|en|desesperada|necesidad|de|ayuda están en desesperada necesidad de ayuda.

Would you say that they don't deserve ||||||méritent (verbo auxiliar)|tú|dirías|que|ellos|no|merecen ¿Dirías que no merecen

help that would come ayuda|que|(verbo auxiliar)|vendría ayuda que vendría

from de de

the federal government through taxation? el|federal|gobierno|a través de|impuestos el gobierno federal a través de impuestos?

Okay, that's a difficult question. está bien|esa es|una|difícil|pregunta Está bien, esa es una pregunta difícil.

I think yo|pienso Creo que

deserve it. merecer|eso la merecen.

requirements to reach sustenance, you're going to need help. Like if you don't have les exigences|||subsistance|||||||||| requisitos|para|alcanzar|sustento|vas a|necesitar|ayuda|ayuda|ayuda|como|si|tú|no|tienes per raggiungere il sostentamento, avrete bisogno di aiuto. Ad esempio, se non avete los requisitos para alcanzar la subsistencia, vas a necesitar ayuda. Como si no tienes

## So need is one thing and dessert is another. ||||||dessert|| entonces|necesidad|es|una|cosa|y|postre|es|otra ## Quindi il bisogno è una cosa e il dessert è un'altra. ## Así que la necesidad es una cosa y el postre es otra.

Who would like to reply? ||||répondre quién|gustaría|a|(verbo auxiliar)|responder ¿Quién le gustaría responder?

a democratic government and we have representatives |démocratique|||||représentants una|democrática|gobierno|y|nosotros|tenemos|representantes un governo democratico e abbiamo rappresentanti un gobierno democrático y tenemos representantes

who enforce those rights. quién|hace cumplir|esos|derechos quien hace cumplir esos derechos.

If you live in a society that operates under those rules, |||||||||ces| si|tú|vives|en|una|sociedad|que|opera|bajo|esas|reglas Si vives en una sociedad que opera bajo esas reglas,

to decide a|decidir decidir

how cómo cómo

those resources that come out through taxation are distributed because |||||par|||distribuées| esos|recursos|que|salen|a través|por|impuestos|son|distribuidos|porque se distribuyen esos recursos que provienen de la tributación porque

it is through the consent of the government. If you disagree with it, ||||consentement|||||||| eso|es|a través del|el|consentimiento|del|el|gobierno|si|tú|no estás de acuerdo|con|eso es a través del consentimiento del gobierno. Si no estás de acuerdo con ello,

you don't have to live in that society where that operates. ||||||||||fonctionne tú|no|tienes|que|vivir|en|esa|sociedad|donde|eso|opera no tienes que vivir en esa sociedad donde eso opera.

Raul is pointing out, actually Raul is invoking |||||||invoque raul|está|señalando|hacia|en realidad|raul|está|invocando Raul sottolinea, in realtà Raul invoca Raúl está señalando, de hecho Raúl está invocando

point number two. punto|número|dos el punto número dos.

If the taxation is by si|la|tributación|es|por Si la tributación es por

the consent of the governed, |consentement||| el|consentimiento|de|los|gobernados el consentimiento de los gobernados,

it's not coerced, ||contraint no|es|forzado non è forzata, no es forzado,

it's legitimate. es|legítimo es legítimo.

Congress. They get to congreso|ellos|obtienen|a Congreso. Ellos tienen que

vote voto votar

their policy convictions su|política|convicciones le loro convinzioni politiche sus convicciones políticas

just like everybody else. justo|como|todos|los demás igual que todos los demás.

Basically what the libertarians are básicamente|lo que|los|libertarios|son Básicamente, lo que los libertarios están

objecting to in this case is the middle 80% deciding what the top 10% objetar|a|en|este|caso|es|el|medio|decidiendo|lo que|el|superior in questo caso è l'80% medio che decide cosa il 10% superiore objetando en este caso es que el 80% del medio decida lo que el 10% superior

Majority. Don't you believe in democracy? mayoría|no|tú|crees|en|democracia Mayoría. ¿No crees en la democracia?

Majority rule is what? mayoría|regla|es|qué ¿Qué es la regla de la mayoría?

The majority. la|mayoría La mayoría.

Democracy and mob rule aren't the same thing. Mob rule? Mob rule. ||foule||||||||| democracia|y|mob|regla|no son|lo|mismo|cosa|mob|regla|mob|regla Democrazia e mafia non sono la stessa cosa. Regime mafioso? Regola della mafia. La democracia y el gobierno de la multitud no son lo mismo. ¿Gobierno de la multitud? Gobierno de la multitud.

Exactly. But in an open society you have a recourse to address that through your |||||||||수단||||| exactamente|pero|en|una|abierta|sociedad|tú|tienes|un|recurso|para|abordar|eso|a través de|tu Esattamente. Ma in una società aperta si ha la possibilità di affrontare la questione attraverso il proprio Exactamente. Pero en una sociedad abierta tienes un recurso para abordar eso a través de tu

representatives. 대표자 representantes representantes.

And if the majority of the consent of those who are governed y|si|la|mayoría|del|el|consentimiento|de|aquellos|quienes|están|gobernados E se la maggioranza del consenso di coloro che sono governati Y si la mayoría del consentimiento de aquellos que son gobernados

doesn't agree with you, no|está de acuerdo|contigo|tú no está de acuerdo contigo,

then you know entonces|tú|sabes entonces sabes

you're choosing to live in a society tú estás|eligiendo|a|vivir|en|una|sociedad estás eligiendo vivir en una sociedad

Democracy, what about that? democracia|qué|sobre|eso Democracia, ¿qué hay de eso?

The fact that el|hecho|que El hecho de que

I have won, you know, 500 thousandth of a vote for one representative in Congress |||||de mille||||||||Congrès yo|he ganado|ganado|tú|sabes|milésima|de|un|voto|por|un|representante|en|Congreso Ho ottenuto, sapete, 500 millesimi di voto per un rappresentante al Congresso he ganado, ya sabes, 500 milésimas de un voto para un representante en el Congreso

how to use my property rights. I'm ||||propriété|| cómo|a|usar|mis|derechos de propiedad|derechos|estoy cómo usar mis derechos de propiedad. Yo soy

a drop in the bucket. una|gota|en|el|balde una goccia nel secchio. una gota en el océano.

Exactly. And they might take... And I will. I mean I don't have exactamente|y|ellos|podrían|tomar|y|yo|lo haré|yo|quiero decir|yo|no|tengo Esattamente. E potrebbero prendere... E lo farò. Voglio dire, non ho Exactamente. Y podrían tomar... Y lo haré. Quiero decir, no tengo

the decision right now of whether or not to pay taxes. If I don't I get locked in jail. la|decisión|ahora|ahora|de|si|o|no|a|pagar|impuestos|si|yo|no|yo|me|encierro|en|cárcel la decisione di pagare o meno le tasse. Se non lo faccio vengo rinchiuso in prigione. la decisión en este momento de si pagar o no impuestos. Si no lo hago, me encierran en la cárcel.

let me make a small case for democracy. |||||||démocratie (verbo auxiliar)|me|hacer|un|pequeño|caso|por|democracia déjame hacer un pequeño caso por la democracia.

See what you would say. ve|qué|tú|dirías|decir Veamos qué dirías.

Why can't you... We live in a democratic society with freedom of speech. ||||||||||||발언 por qué|no puedes|tú|nosotros|vivimos|en|una|democrática|sociedad|con|libertad|de|expresión Perché non puoi... Viviamo in una società democratica con libertà di parola. ¿Por qué no puedes... Vivimos en una sociedad democrática con libertad de expresión.

Why can't you take to the hustings, ||||||campagne électorale por qué|no puedes|tú|llevar|a|las|elecciones Perché non puoi andare alle elezioni? ¿Por qué no puedes ir a las elecciones,

persuade your fellow citizens |||citoyens persuade|tus|compañeros|ciudadanos convincere i vostri concittadini persuadir a tus conciudadanos

that taxation is unjust |||injuste esa|tributación|es|injusta de que la tributación es injusta?

simply in order to exercise simplemente|para|poder|ejercer| simplemente para ejercer

their own rights in order to not have their self-ownership violated. |||||||||||violé sus|propios|derechos|para|que|no||tengan|su|||violados i propri diritti per non veder violata la propria autoproprietà. sus propios derechos para no tener su auto-propiedad violada.

280 million people. Does that mean you're against democracy as a whole? No, I just believe 백만|||||||||||||| millones|personas|eso|eso|significa|estás|en contra de|democracia|como|un|todo|no|yo|solo|creo a 280 millones de personas. ¿Eso significa que estás en contra de la democracia en su conjunto? No, solo creo

the scope of what decisions |portée|||décisions el|alcance|de|qué|decisiones l'ambito di quali decisioni el alcance de lo que se puede decidir.

can be made democratically. |||démocratiquement puede|ser|hecho|democráticamente se puede hacer democráticamente.

except where fundamental rights are involved. ||les droits fondamentaux||| excepto|donde|fundamentales|derechos|están|involucrados excepto donde están involucrados los derechos fundamentales.

I think you could win... If you're going on the hustings, let me add one element to the ||||||tu es|||||||ajouter|||| yo|pienso|tú|podrías|ganar|si|estás|yendo|a|las|elecciones|deja|me|agregar|un|elemento|a|las Penso che potresti vincere... Se si presenta alle elezioni, permettetemi di aggiungere un elemento al Creo que podrías ganar... Si vas a las elecciones, déjame añadir un elemento al

argument you might make. argumento|tú|podrías|hacer argumento que podrías hacer.

taxation. tributación impuestos.

Suppose the individual right to religious liberty were at stake. |||||||||en jeu supongamos|el|individual|derecho|a|religiosa|libertad|estuviera|en|juego Supponiamo che sia in gioco il diritto individuale alla libertà religiosa. Supongamos que el derecho individual a la libertad religiosa estuviera en juego.

Then, Alex, you could say on the hustings, |||pourrais||sur|| entonces|Alex|tú|podrías|decir|en|las|elecciones Allora, Alex, potresti dire, in occasione delle elezioni, Entonces, Alex, podrías decir en la campaña,

surely you would all agree sûrement||seriez||seriez d'accord seguramente|ustedes|(verbo auxiliar)|todos|estar de acuerdo seguramente todos estarían de acuerdo

that we shouldn't put the right to individual liberty up to a vote? ||ne devrions|||||||||| que|nosotros|no deberíamos|poner|el|derecho|a|individual|libertad|arriba|a|una|votación che non dovremmo mettere ai voti il diritto alla libertà individuale? en que no deberíamos someter el derecho a la libertad individual a votación?

Yeah, that's exactly right. sí|eso es|exactamente|correcto Sí, eso es exactamente correcto.

So you would say entonces|tú|dirías|decir Así que dirías

to protect it from redistribution, para|proteger|lo|de|redistribución protegerlo de la redistribución,

with the same kind of weight |||||poids con|el|mismo|tipo|de|peso con el mismo tipo de peso

as the right to freedom of speech, ||||||발언 como|el|derecho|a|libertad|de|expresión come il diritto alla libertà di parola, que el derecho a la libertad de expresión,

the right to religious liberty, rights that should trump |||||droits||| el|derecho|a|religiosa|libertad|derechos|que|deben|prevalecer il diritto alla libertà religiosa, diritti che dovrebbero avere la meglio su el derecho a la libertad religiosa, derechos que deberían prevalecer

what the majority wants? qué|la|mayoría|quiere ¿sobre lo que quiere la mayoría?

to own ourselves, to exercise our voice ||nous|||| para|poseer|nosotros mismos|para|ejercer|nuestra|voz di possedere noi stessi, di esercitare la nostra voce a ser dueños de nosotros mismos, a ejercer nuestra voz

democracy being... Okay, up there. Stand up. |étant||||| democracia|siendo|está bien|arriba|allí|levántate|arriba la democracia siendo... Está bien, allá arriba. Póngase de pie.

and socially stable y|socialmente|estable e socialmente stabile sociedad económicamente

society, and if the government didn't provide for the poorest ten percent, as you say, ||||||pourvoyait|||pauvres||||| sociedad|y|si|el|gobierno|no|proveer|para|los|más pobres|diez|por ciento|como|tú|dices y socialmente estable, y si el gobierno no proporcionara para el diez por ciento más pobre, como dices,

through taxation, then a través de|impuestos|entonces a través de la tributación, entonces

we would need more money for police to prevent crime. ||||||||prévenir| nosotros|necesitaríamos|más|dinero|dinero|para|la policía|para|prevenir|crimen avremmo bisogno di più soldi per la polizia per prevenire il crimine. necesitaríamos más dinero para la policía para prevenir el crimen.

And so either way, there would be more taxes taken away to provide what you guys call y|entonces|cualquiera|manera|allí|habría|más|más|impuestos|quitados||para|proporcionar|lo que|ustedes|chicos|llaman Y así, de cualquier manera, habría más impuestos que se quitarían para proporcionar lo que ustedes llaman

the necessary things las|necesarias|cosas las cosas necesarias

that the government provides. que|el|gobierno|proporciona que el gobierno proporciona.

What's your name? cuál es|tu|nombre ¿Cuál es tu nombre?

Anna. Anna, let me ask you this. Anna||deja|me|preguntar|a ti|esto Anna. Anna, déjame preguntarte esto.

Why por qué ¿Por qué?

from de de

the right Alex asserts |||affirme el|derecho|Alex|afirma la destra Alex afferma la derecha Alex afirma

as a fundamental right ||fondamental| como|un|fundamental|derecho como un derecho fundamental

to private property a|propiedad privada| a la propiedad privada

Because you wouldn't porque|tú|no lo harías Porque no lo harías

have... tener tendría...

something that you can practice on your own in your own home. algo|que|tú|puedes|practicar|en|tu|propio|en|tu|propio|casa algo que puedes practicar por tu cuenta en tu propia casa.

Whereas, like, me practicing my religion is not going to affect the next person. mientras_que|como|yo|practicando|mi|religión|está|no|va|a|afectar|la|siguiente|persona Mentre, ad esempio, il fatto che io pratichi la mia religione non influenzerà il prossimo. Mientras que, como, practicar mi religión no va a afectar a la siguiente persona.

But if I'm poor and I'm desperate, ||||||désespéré pero|si|estoy|pobre|y|estoy|desesperado Pero si soy pobre y estoy desesperado,

like, I might commit a crime to feed my family, |||commettre|||||| como|yo|podría|cometer|un|crimen|para|alimentar|mi|familia como, podría cometer un crimen para alimentar a mi familia,

to steal a loaf of bread |voler||pain|| para|robar|un|pan|de|pan robase una barra de pan

to feed a|alimentar para alimentar

his starving family? |affamée| su|hambrienta|familia a su familia hambrienta?

Is that wrong? es|eso|incorrecto ¿Está mal?

I believe that it is. This is... Let's take a quick poll of the three of you. |||||||||||sondage||||| yo|creo|que|eso|es|esto|es|vamos a|hacer|una|rápida|encuesta|de|los|tres|de|ustedes Credo che lo sia. Questo è... Facciamo un rapido sondaggio tra voi tre. Creo que sí. Esto es... Hagamos una rápida encuesta entre los tres.

Even to save a starving family? ||||affamée| incluso|para|salvar|una|hambrienta|familia ¿Incluso para salvar a una familia hambrienta?

by justifying... por|justificar justificando...

No, hang on, hang on. Before you laugh at me. |||attends||||rigoler|| no|espera|un momento|espera|un momento|antes de que|tú|te rías|de|mí No, aspetta, aspetta. Prima che tu rida di me. No, espera, espera. Antes de que te rías de mí.

That didn't work. cela|n'a pas| eso|no|funcionó Eso no funcionó.

Before... antes Antes...

Before justifying the act |justifier||acte antes de|justificar|el|acto Prima di giustificare l'atto Antes de justificar el acto

of stealing, |vol de|robar de robar,

you have to look at tú|tienes|que|mirar|a tienes que mirar a

violating the right that we've already agreed exists, the right of self-possession violer|||||||||droit|||de possession violando|el|derecho|que|hemos|ya|acordado|existe|el|derecho|de|| violando il diritto che abbiamo già concordato esistere, il diritto di autoproduzione. violar el derecho que ya hemos acordado que existe, el derecho a la auto-possession

and the possession of, y|la|posesión|de y la posesión de,

So property rights is not the issue. entonces|derechos de propiedad|derechos|es|no|el|problema Así que los derechos de propiedad no son el problema.

So why is it wrong to steal even to feed your starving family? Sort of the original ||||||voler|||||||||| entonces|por qué|es|eso|malo|a|robar|incluso|para|alimentar|tu|hambrienta|familia|tipo|de|el|original Allora perché è sbagliato rubare anche per sfamare la propria famiglia che muore di fame? Più o meno l'originale Entonces, ¿por qué está mal robar incluso para alimentar a tu familia hambrienta? Es una especie de argumento original.

argument that I made in the very first question you asked. The benefits argumento|que|yo|hice|en|la|muy|primera|pregunta|tú|preguntaste|los|beneficios El argumento que hice en la primera pregunta que me hiciste. Los beneficios

make the action just. haz|la|acción|justa haz que la acción sea justa.

What would you say, Julia? qué|dirías|tú|decir|julia ¿Qué dirías, Julia?

Is it all right to es|eso|todo|correcto|a ¿Está bien

steal a loaf of bread to feed a starving family, or to steal a drug that robar|un|pan|de|pan|para|alimentar|una|hambrienta|familia|o|para|robar|una|droga|que robar una barra de pan para alimentar a una familia hambrienta, o robar un medicamento que

your child needs to tu|hijo|necesita|que tu hijo necesita

survive? sobrevivir sobrevivir?

I think I'm okay with that, honestly. Even from a libertarian standpoint, I think that |||||||||||point de vue||| yo|pienso|estoy|bien|con|eso|honestamente|incluso|desde|un|libertario|punto de vista|yo|pienso|eso Creo que estoy bien con eso, honestamente. Incluso desde un punto de vista libertario, creo que

okay saying that you can just take money arbitrarily from people who have a lot ||||||||arbitrairement|||||| está bien|diciendo|que|tú|puedes|simplemente|tomar|dinero|arbitrariamente|de|personas|que|tienen|un|mucho está bien decir que puedes simplemente tomar dinero arbitrariamente de las personas que tienen mucho

from the idea of self-possession, de|la|idea|de|| desde la idea de la autoconfianza,

they're also in charge of |también|a|cargo|de sono anche responsabili di también están a cargo de

So therefore, even from a libertarian standpoint, that might be okay. |donc|||||point de vue|||| entonces|por lo tanto|incluso|desde|un|libertario|punto de vista|eso|podría|estar|bien Quindi, anche da un punto di vista libertario, potrebbe andare bene. Por lo tanto, incluso desde un punto de vista libertario, eso podría estar bien.

Alright, that's good. That's good. bien|eso es|bueno|eso es|bueno Está bien, eso es bueno. Eso es bueno.

Isn't it the case no es|eso|el|caso ¿No es cierto

that the successful, the wealthy ||||riche que|los|exitosos|los|ricos che chi ha successo, chi è ricco que los exitosos, los ricos

owe a debt? They didn't do that all by themselves. They had to cooperate with other people. ||dette|||||||||||||| deben|una|deuda|ellos|no|hicieron|eso|todo|por|sí mismos|ellos|tuvieron|que|cooperar|con|otras|personas deben una deuda? No lo hicieron todo por sí mismos. Tuvieron que cooperar con otras personas.

That they que|ellos Que ellos

owe a debt to society, and that that's expressed in taxation. You want to take that on, Julia? debes|una|deuda|a|la sociedad|y|eso|eso está|expresado|en|impuestos|tú|quieres|a|asumir|eso|en|julia hanno un debito nei confronti della società, che si esprime con la tassazione. Vuoi accettare questo, Julia? deben una deuda a la sociedad, y que eso se expresa en impuestos. ¿Quieres asumir eso, Julia?

Okay, this one, I believe that ||||crois| está bien|este|uno|yo|creo|que Está bien, este, creo que

that society valued highly. esa|sociedad|valoraba|altamente que la sociedad valoraba mucho.

been providing for them. |fournissant|| estado|proporcionando|para|ellos estado proveyendo para ellos.

and society y|sociedad y la sociedad

So be concrete. In the case of Michael Jordan, entonces|sé|concreto|en|el|caso|de|Michael|Jordan Así que sé concreto. En el caso de Michael Jordan,

some, algunos algunos,

I mean to illustrate your point, |||illustrer|| yo|quiero decir|a|ilustrar|tu|punto Quiero ilustrar tu punto,

the coach, el|entrenador el entrenador,

people who taught him how to play. personas|que|le enseñaron|a él|cómo|a|jugar personas que le enseñaron a jugar.

Exactly. exactamente Exactamente.

And society derived a lot of benefit and pleasure from watching Michael Jordan play. ||||||||||regarder||| y|la sociedad|derivó|un|montón|de|beneficios|y|placer|de|ver|michael|jordan|jugar Y la sociedad obtuvo muchos beneficios y placer al ver jugar a Michael Jordan.

I think that there's a problem here yo|pienso|que||problema|problema|aquí Creo que hay un problema aquí

that we're assuming that a person has self-possession when they live in a society. que|estamos|asumiendo|que|una|persona|tiene|||cuando|ellos|viven|en|una|sociedad che stiamo dando per scontato che una persona abbia la padronanza di sé quando vive in una società. en que estamos asumiendo que una persona tiene autodominio cuando vive en una sociedad.

I feel like when you live in a society you give up that right. I mean technically if I yo|siento|como|cuando|tú|vives|en|una|sociedad|tú|das|up|ese|derecho|yo|quiero decir|técnicamente|si|yo Siento que cuando vives en una sociedad renuncias a ese derecho. Quiero decir, técnicamente si yo

save people's lives. salvar|vidas de las personas|vidas salvar vidas.

Is it not okay for the government to take that from me? es|eso|no|correcto|para|el|gobierno|que|tome|eso|de|mí ¿No está bien que el gobierno me quite eso?

It's self-possession only to a certain extent because I'm living in a society where I have es|||solo|hasta|un|cierto|grado|porque|estoy|viviendo|en|una|sociedad|donde|yo|tengo Es autocontrol solo hasta cierto punto porque estoy viviendo en una sociedad donde tengo

Victoria, are you questioning victoria|estás|tú|cuestionando Victoria, stai mettendo in dubbio Victoria, ¿estás cuestionando

the fundamental premise of self-possession? ||||soi| la|fundamental|premisa|de|| la premisa fundamental de la autodeterminación?

you cannot just discount the people around you. |||ignorer|||| tú|no puedes|simplemente|ignorar|a|las personas|alrededor de|ti non si possono ignorare le persone che ci circondano. no puedes simplemente ignorar a las personas que te rodean.

Alright, I want to quickly get the response ||||rapidement|||réponse bien|yo|quiero|a|rápidamente|obtener|la|respuesta D'accordo, voglio ottenere rapidamente la risposta Está bien, quiero obtener rápidamente la respuesta

of de de

the libertarian team el|libertario|equipo el equipo libertario

to the last point. a|el|último|punto al último punto.

The last point el|último|punto El último punto

builds on construye|sobre se basa en

well maybe it builds on Victoria's suggestion that we don't own ourselves |||||de Victoria||||||nous-mêmes bueno|tal vez|eso|se basa|en|Victoria|sugerencia|que|nosotros|no|poseemos|a nosotros mismos beh, forse si basa sul suggerimento di Victoria che non siamo padroni di noi stessi bueno, tal vez se basa en la sugerencia de Victoria de que no nos pertenecemos a nosotros mismos

because it says porque|(pronombre)|dice porque dice

that Bill Gates is wealthy, ||||riche que|Bill|Gates|es|rico que Bill Gates es rico,

that Michael Jordan makes a huge income. ||||||revenu que|Michael|Jordan|hace|un|enorme|ingreso che Michael Jordan guadagna moltissimo. que Michael Jordan tiene un gran ingreso.

Isn't wholly |entièrement no es|completamente ¿No es del todo

their own doing? su|propio|hacer su propio mérito?

and so we can't claim that they ||||affirmer|| y|así|nosotros|no podemos|afirmar|que|ellos y por lo tanto no podemos afirmar que ellos

morally deserve |mériter moralmente|merecer meritare moralmente moralmente merecen

all the money they make. ||argent|ils| todo|el|dinero|ellos|hacen todo el dinero que ganan.

it is not, their wealth is not appropriate to the goodness in their hearts, ||||richesse|||appropriée|||bonté||| eso|es|no|su|riqueza|es|no|apropiada|a|la|bondad|en|sus|corazones non lo è, la loro ricchezza non è adeguata alla bontà del loro cuore, no es así, su riqueza no es apropiada a la bondad en sus corazones,

Good enough. bueno|suficiente Suficiente.

I want to try to sum up what we've learned from this discussion but first let's thank |||||résumer||||||||||| yo|quiero|a|intentar|a|resumir|lo que|lo que|hemos|aprendido|de|esta|discusión|pero|primero|vamos a|agradecer Quiero intentar resumir lo que hemos aprendido de esta discusión, pero primero agradezcamos

Thank you. gracias|a ti Gracias.

Victoria challenged victoria|desafió Victoria desafió

Maybe, she suggested, we don't own ourselves ||a proposé|||| quizás|ella|sugirió|nosotros|no|poseemos|a nosotros mismos Quizás, sugirió ella, no nos pertenecemos a nosotros mismos

after all. después|todo después de todo.

If you reject ||rejette si|tú|rechazas Si rechazas

the libertarian case against redistribution |||contre| el|libertario|caso|contra|redistribución el caso libertario contra la redistribución

there would seem to be allí|debería|parecer|a|estar parecería haber

an incentive un|incentivo un incentivo

at the earliest, at the most modest level, ||au plus tôt||||| en|el|más temprano|en|el|más|modesto|nivel al più presto, al livello più modesto, a más tardar, en el nivel más modesto,

disputed disputado contestato discutió

that taxation esa|tributación esa tributación

But what about |que| pero|qué|acerca de ¿Pero qué hay de

the big claim, la|gran|afirmación la gran afirmación,

Or o ¿O

and still avoid ||éviter y|aún|evitar y aún así evitar

what libertarians want to avoid, lo que|los libertarios|quieren|a|evitar lo que los libertarios quieren evitar,

creating a society and an account of justice creando|una|sociedad|y|una|relato|de|justicia creare una società e una storia di giustizia creando una sociedad y una cuenta de justicia

where some people dónde|algunas|personas donde algunas personas

can be puede|ser pueden ser

just used justo|usado solo usado

for the sake ||bien por|la|causa por el bien

of other people's welfare |||bien-être de|otras|las personas|bienestar del bienestar de otras personas

or even for the sake o|incluso|por|la|causa o incluso por el bien

of the general good? |le|bien| del|el|general|bien ¿del bien general?

Libertarians combat |luttent libertarios|combaten Los libertarios combaten

the utilitarian idea la|utilitaria|idea la idea utilitarista

of using people de|usar|personas de usar a las personas

as means como|significa como medios

for the collective happiness por|la|colectiva|felicidad para la felicidad colectiva

and Robert Nozick. y|robert|nozick y Robert Nozick.

What are the consequences qué|son|las|consecuencias ¿Cuáles son las consecuencias?

for a theory of justice para|una|teoría|de|justicia para una teoría de la justicia

and an account of rights y|una|cuenta|de|derechos e un resoconto dei diritti y un relato de derechos

of calling into question de|llamar|en|cuestión de cuestionar

the idea of self-possession? la|idea|de|| la idea de la auto-possession?

Does it mean that we're back to utilitarianism (verbo auxiliar)|eso|significa|que||de regreso|a|utilitarismo ¿Significa eso que hemos vuelto al utilitarismo?

and using people y|usando|personas ¿y a usar a las personas?

and aggregating preferences y|agregando|preferencias ¿y a agregar preferencias?

Nozick doesn't nozick|no Nozick no lo hace

himself a sí mismo él mismo

fully develop the idea of self-possession. He borrows it from an earlier philosopher, John Locke. completamente|desarrolla|la|idea|de|||él|toma prestado|eso|de|un|anterior|filósofo|john|locke desarrollar completamente la idea de la auto-possession. La toma prestada de un filósofo anterior, John Locke.

John Locke Juan|Locke John Locke

accounted contabilizado contabilizzato contabilizado

from the state of nature de|la|estado|de|naturaleza desde el estado de naturaleza

by a chain of reasoning very similar to the one that Nozick and the libertarians use. por|una|cadena|de|razonamiento|muy|similar|a|la|una|que|Nozick|y|los|libertarios|usan por una cadena de razonamiento muy similar a la que utilizan Nozick y los libertarios.

John Locke said juan|locke|dijo John Locke dijo

private property arises propiedad privada|propiedad|surge que la propiedad privada surge

because porque porque

when we mix our labor cuando|nosotros|mezclamos|nuestro|trabajo cuando mezclamos nuestro trabajo

with things, con|cosas con cosas,

unowned things, non possédés| no poseídas|cosas cosas no poseídas,

And the reason, y|la|razón Y la razón,

And the reason for that, y|la|razón|por|eso Y la razón de eso,

we are the proprietors, the owners |||propriétaires|| nosotros|somos|los|propietarios|los|dueños somos los propietarios, los dueños

of our own person. de|nuestra|propia|persona de nuestra propia persona.

we need to turn nosotros|necesitamos|que|girar necesitamos recurrir

and examine his account y|examina|su|cuenta ed esaminare il suo conto y examinar su cuenta

of private property ||propriété de|privada|propiedad de propiedad privada

and self-ownership. y|| y auto-propiedad.

Thank you. gracias|a ti Gracias.

Additional funding provided by |financement|| adicional|financiamiento|proporcionado|por Financiación adicional proporcionada por

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